T3 California Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 Help please to forum newbie. After 20 years of owning my Mk2 Vitesse I decided to fit a magnetronic electronic ignition system with lumenition matched coil, new distributor cap, and new club HT leads, all bought from the club shop. I studied the u tube videos and was convinced it would take about 30 minutes. 5 hours later I have no spark. Its is fitted with a lucas 22d dizzy and was working just fine before the swop. I had to cut off the peg as per the instructions on the base plate and got a good flush fitting for the adapter plate. Attached the module, now here is the first problem. I was unable to get a gap of 1.5mm for the magnetic timing disc , it was much too tight. There is some vertical play in the dizzy but little side to side play. Everything I tried to lift the magnetic timing disc resulted in the rotor arm not bedding down properly. The other dilemma was , I was unsure if the Mk2 is fitted with a ballast protector already. The existing coil measures 3 ohms. I can see no white wires with vague pink strips. It had a new loom in 1995 and I am not sure if they used the factory colours. So I fitted the ballast protector that came with the new coil. I also fitted a new distributor cap and club leads, having used the old leads as a template to refit in correct order. Tried to start it up , turns over (new battery) well but won't start. No spark from HT leads. Took it to bits, the label on the module has scrapped off as the timing disc is too close. Swopped back the old points , dizzy cap , leads and coil, still won't start and still no spark! I have been through the troubleshooting guide , which does not say what to do if the timing disc is too tight to the module. I wonder if there is a thinner adapter plate? So I now have a car with no spark with either the new or the old ignition system! Any suggestions gratefully received BW Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 Tom, Have you a multi meter? If you have a ballasted system you will have 6 volts with the ignition turned on, then 12 volts briefly as you turn the key to start, then 6 volts running. If you have non-ballasted you will have 12 volts before, starting and running. 3 ohm coil suggest non-ballasted system, ballasted are 1.5 ohms. Do you mean a 1.5mm gap between ring and sensor? Don't think smaller gap would be a problem unless they're touching! Not sure why you're trying to raise the ring? If you're suspecting HT leads or dizzy cap wrong, go for the HT output from the coil, if no spark here it's the electronics Most common issue with electronics not working is an earth issue on the plate, it's got to be there! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3 California Posted July 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 Thanks for the reply. Yes I have a multimeter and will try the voltage test, have checked continuity and swopped the spade connectors for better quality items. Yes I mean 1.5mm gap between the ring (magnetic timing disc) and sensor (module). It is touching and has scrapped off the label on the sensor which is why I have been attempting to raise up a bit, without success. I don't understand why I have no spark after refitting all the old points and rest of the kit from leads to coil. Earthing wire insitu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 to add No Vitesse ever had a 1.5 ohm ballast coil system a straight 3 ohm coil fed from the ign switch , no other complications you must not use a ballast with a 3 ohm coil if you have no spark and confirm you have 12v at the coil +ve use a short jump wire to flick on a earth , the coil should spark , if thats produces a spark then the old points are incorrectly fitted and either unable to earth or are permanently earthed i cant advise on the lumenition , i use one and its fine in a lucas dizzy on the 2000 is your lumenition kit part numbered magmkT005 ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3 California Posted July 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 Have re-instated the old points and coil again (third time). Accurately set the points, and it is running again quite sweetly. Seems to work better with the old coil, Checked the voltage on the old coil, 12v while running on the positive side, 6v on the negative. Not sure what that implies, whether ballasted or not? Looks like I might have fried the coil and the electronic ignition, hard to know how though. Not keen on putting it back in the car for a third time to test them. Anyone know how to bench test these units??? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3 California Posted July 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 Reply to Pete Thanks for getting back, I did not see your post until after my latest reply. Yes part number MAG MKT005 You are right , it was my incompetent, hurried refitting of the points that would not let the car start with the old kit. So its just the electronic ignition and new coil that are potentially the problem. Looks like £150 down the drain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, T3 California said: Have re-instated the old points and coil again (third time). Accurately set the points, and it is running again quite sweetly. Seems to work better with the old coil, Checked the voltage on the old coil, 12v while running on the positive side, 6v on the negative. Not sure what that implies, whether ballasted or not? Looks like I might have fried the coil and the electronic ignition, hard to know how though. Not keen on putting it back in the car for a third time to test them. Anyone know how to bench test these units??? Thanks If it’s like Accuspark if the magnet touches the outer and you run the car you will fry the unit . Equally with the Accuspark if you wire incorrectly you will fry the unit . Don’t ask me how I know Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 12v in is correct 6v out is not of any real clue the coil should run ok whatever point electron you use what is the ohms of the new coil ???? you could rig up a feed to teh coil etc and have an old plug to see a spark you just swipe a magnet over the unit it will switch and as it breaks the coil will discharge you must retime the ignition when you swap electronics and mech points as the trigger point /angles are likely to be very different or you get pinking or wonder who has nicked the horses Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 You usually have to radically alter the position of the distributor when you fit the module. the car will not run if just fitted, or if it does, bag-a-shite Will be the best you will get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 I would still expect a spark though unless the change put the timing so far out the rotor arm is completely out of synch with the dizzy cap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 20 hours ago, T3 California said: Everything I tried to lift the magnetic timing disc resulted in the rotor arm not bedding down properly. Two things: be careful with that as it caused me a few embarrassing breakdowns (in front of BBC camera crews too!), when the rotor arm fell off repeatedly due to an ill-fitting collar preventing it from seating properly. You may think it's seated but once the engine gets up to revs, off it goes again usually wrecking the cap too. Secondly: can you post photos? We may be able to spot something that you haven't seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3 California Posted July 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 Can't do photos as have re instated the old points and coil. Certainly the 20yr old rotor arm is a bit loose and I have ordered a new red one from the shop. No one has come up with a solution/suggestion to the plastic magnetic timing disc scrapping the top of sensor module yet. I would be grateful for any ideas as I feel this is the most obvious fault that has not been addressed. Maybe the new rotor arm will make a difference. Since putting back the points it idles better but has a low rev flat spot that suddenly kicks back in. Thanks for all your considerations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 i wonder if there is some problem with the base plate rather than the rotor/disc height position it should just push down to the cam top shoulder and rotor arm fits on top if you raise the disc the rotor will be unstable/loose have you double checked it really is a 22d6 stamped on the base casting ??? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3 California Posted July 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 Definitely a 22D marked with number 41273 on the side, advance 11deg. I took the base plate out and re-seated it but made no difference. What degree of timing retardation do people find works, if using castrol valve master plus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 there is lots of lead memory in the head so i would not use any addatives unless youre paranoid about valve recess, we have not seen any occur leave it till the head does need to come off (if ever) then have exhaust inserts added till then use a 97+ ron fuel and drive it use as close to factory spec as possible without pinking Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, T3 California said: Definitely a 22D marked with number 41273 on the side, advance 11deg. I took the base plate out and re-seated it but made no difference. What degree of timing retardation do people find works, if using castrol valve master plus? On my mk2 vitesse I have Accuspark and found the best setting is approx 15dg anything below this I found flat spots on accelerating . I don’t use additives and use Tesco Momentum when I can Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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