Patrick Taylor Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 Having had very little use in the past couple of years, the offside front (Type 14) caliper of the Bond is binding, and thinking that a bit of heat might help free it, I went for a drive. This resulted in brake fade, a lot of heat, and a blued disc. Not my wisest decision, in hindsight. I have already replaced the brake fluid and believe it sensible to replace the discs as a pair, too. Which leaves the calipers: one working, one partially seized. I am not keen on 'only' fitting new seals, so the alternatives seem to replace them as a pair, either with new, or reconditioned, units. Given the relatively slim difference in cost (about £10 apiece at Paddocks), are there any benefits in taking the cheaper option? I am well aware of shoddy pattern parts and that re-worked Triumph parts might be better quality, but is this true in this case? Finally, how easy is it to fit new discs and calipers? My only attempt at fitting new pads proved to be a real struggle, but perhaps new, uncorroded parts will be more straightforward. Given the heat generated (and the fact that I have some NOS ones) I intend to fit new bearings, too. I would regard myself as a competent mechanic: clutch changes, cylinder heads off & valves replaced, etc. in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 Been a number of posts. Regerds. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Patrick Taylor said: How easy is it to fit new discs and calipers? My only attempt at fitting new pads proved to be a real struggle, but perhaps new, uncorroded parts will be more straightforward. Given the heat generated (and the fact that I have some NOS ones) I intend to fit new bearings, too. I would regard myself as a competent mechanic: clutch changes, cylinder heads off & valves replaced, etc. in the past. Simple; I've done three Heralds and a Spitfire in the last year. I'd also suggest rebuilding your old calipers with seals and pistons. All the parts are available including stainless pistons if you want those, plus seal kits and if you split the caliper, the small seal between the two halves. The main requirement is to get them clean of rust; I sandblast and repaint before lightly honing the cylinder bores and replacing the seals. There have been issues with the replacement type 14 calipers, so using the old ones seems a better option. The discs are only held on with four bolts into the hub; remove the hub, remove the bolts, knock off the disc, clean up the hub and replace the new disc, then refit to spec. As with the calipers the biggest problem may be removing them if they're rusted in place but a good impact wrench makes light work of it. This was last week's work on the Herald: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Taylor Posted October 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, 68vitesse said: Been a number of posts. Thanks -interesting reading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Taylor Posted October 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said: Simple; I've done three Heralds and a Spitfire in the last year. OK, it looks like I might give it a go, as I have a couple of seal sets in the drawer. I may not split the caliper, though: it sounds like 'here there be dragons' territory, like fully reconning a gearbox or rear pinion set. I just hope everything isn't seized -but suspect it will be 😒. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 24 minutes ago, Patrick Taylor said: I may not split the caliper, though: it sounds like 'here there be dragons' territory, like fully reconning a gearbox or rear pinion set. I've done that on a number of calipers, with no issues - I did ask if there was a specified torque for retightening, but there doesn't seem to be; it's just 'really tight'.. The impact wrench usually suffices. It makes the two halves much easier to work on, especially if the pistons are really seriously seized. You can see the small rubber seal bottom right of the first photo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Taylor Posted November 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2021 I have made a start and will be fitting new discs, bearings and calipers. There isn't a locking plate on the car (type 14 brakes with standard Herald/Spit set-up); do I need to order a couple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 13, 2021 Report Share Posted November 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Patrick Taylor said: There isn't a locking plate on the car what plate is this ??? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Taylor Posted November 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: what plate is this ??? Pete The tab washer one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 13, 2021 Report Share Posted November 13, 2021 i dont see any tab washers on calipers where does it fit ..... nothing on any parts listing Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Taylor Posted November 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said: i dont see any tab washers on calipers where does it fit ..... nothing on any parts listing Pete My 'Autodata' handbook shows a tab washer 'plate' (or two curved strips?) on the disc-to-hub bolts. But as mine has spring washers I'm assuming the tab washer is artistic licence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 13, 2021 Report Share Posted November 13, 2021 Earlier Heralds have the tab washer to secure the caliper mounting to the backplate / hub; this may look as though it attaches to the disc bolts in the exploded diagram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted November 13, 2021 Report Share Posted November 13, 2021 Just now, Colin Lindsay said: Earlier Heralds have the tab washer to secure the caliper mounting to the backplate Very useful for preventing those bolts working loose and leaving you with decidedly dodgy steering... as I had on this year's RBRR. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 13, 2021 Report Share Posted November 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Mathew said: Just like the rear on the spitfire holding the backplates? Same idea but probably different sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Taylor Posted November 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2021 On 13/11/2021 at 15:36, Colin Lindsay said: Yes, that's what the diagram shows, but on the back of the hub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Smith Posted November 14, 2021 Report Share Posted November 14, 2021 On a personal level, I'd advocate the use of tab washers. A bolt or nut relies on the interference pressure betwixt the underside of the (nut or bolt), and whatever the fixture is. If either slacks off, then it 'can' work loose. The tab being a sort of belt & braces approach to fixing parts in place. Ideally, 2 bolts with tabs will hold tight against its neighbour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Taylor Posted November 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2021 I was thinking I might put a drop of thread lock on the new bolts. The old ones were locked in place by several years' rust, but I can see that a more technical approach might have its advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted November 14, 2021 Report Share Posted November 14, 2021 Just buy brand new callipers from the club shop which are very good quality. You are then ready to swop the items over with no mess. The removal of the callipers and discs is a very straight forward job. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 14, 2021 Report Share Posted November 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Patrick Taylor said: Yes, that's what the diagram shows, but on the back of the hub. If this is the Autodata manual, and the picture is J8 on page 105, it looks like this: Top two of the four bolts through the backplate are spring washers, bottom two are through a locktab. Bolts marked 8 are into the hub / disc through spring washers 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted November 14, 2021 Report Share Posted November 14, 2021 interesting mix of spring and tab washers, I wonder what the engineering thought was behind the mix in what appears to be the same operating environment. Obviously the tabs are the best method of locking the bolts/nuts If any of the 8 bolts came loose they would have the same end result of jamming up the rotating hub and fixed components of the vertical upright, so why the difference in securing options. Irrespective always use new good quality spring washers, because there is some (PRC) china made rubbish out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted November 15, 2021 Report Share Posted November 15, 2021 10 hours ago, Peter Truman said: If any of the 8 bolts came loose they would have the same end result of jamming up the rotating hub No, they don't. What happens when the inner bolts come loose, well before any risk of interference with the hub, is that the steering arm and caliper mount become loose. Then you get vague and wandery steering, lots of loud knocking on braking, and a generally unsafe car. At least until Falls of Shin control, where you work out what the problem is and borrow the tools you need to fix it. I suspect the use of a lock tab only on the bottom is down to those being the bolts that hold the steering arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Taylor Posted November 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2021 16 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: If this is the Autodata manual, and the picture is J8 on page 105 It is the Autodata one, but Diagram H14 on page 85... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 15, 2021 Report Share Posted November 15, 2021 Now THAT'S interesting! Haven't seen that before, and definitely lock tabs. I suspect that because it's not in the Brakes section they've used artistic licence, maybe from another marque, as none of the original Herald or Spitfire manuals show the discs held on that way. If you want to use that method I'll be out in the garage later and will confirm if the backplate locking tabs are the same curvature, or indeed if any that I have from anywhere on the Herald will suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Taylor Posted November 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2021 I think I will rely on torque, threadlock and rust: two of these have proved their worth for over 50 years' motoring so far... 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted November 15, 2021 Report Share Posted November 15, 2021 good point re steering arm 'Non-Member' thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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