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Pertronix Ignitor


Stratton Jimmer

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Has anyone installed a Pertronix Ignitor system to replace their dizzy points? If so, did you have any problems with the installation or operation and specifically the coil? I ask because one of their documents says that it is wise to connect an ignition switched 12v supply to the red lead of the system which itself is attached to the red coil terminal. To my mind, this would by-pass any ballast resistor if a 6v coil is fitted. Here's the link to the document: http://www.pertronix.com.au/troubleshooting.html

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I have an Aldon, AKA Pertronix mine is specifically for Ballasted system.  If I understand correctly they're asking you to attach to the +ve of the coil which would be 12v at start up and 6v thereafter. I would double check you have a ballasted system Pertronix. They're very good, be careful to check timing once installed, mine was exactly right but that is unusual.

Doug 

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the reason for a non ballasted supply to the unit is you can with a ballasted feed end up with being below the threshold workings of the unit and you get misfires

from memory they are designed to operate on 6 to 18v  so in a ballasted system and a poor battery state you can fall below the 6v limit 

you can still run a ballasted coil set up but the unit is best to have a 12v feed 

I have used a 12v 6cyl on the vit6 for 15 years completely trouble free  , sold her and have no idea if its still ok 

retiming is essential as the orientation of the trigger magnets and the pick up position can be quite different to the orig points settings 

pete

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

they are designed to operate on 6 to 18v  so in a ballasted system and a poor battery state you can fall below the 6v limit 

you can still run a ballasted coil set up but the unit is best to have a 12v feed 

Mine IS for ballasted system and operates from a lower voltage, I know this from when I accidentally ripped off one of the sensor wires flush with the sensor. I phoned Aldon and the spares department let me route through their spares database. There were different sensors for ballasted and non ballasted.  However a quick look on the interweb and it's no longer available. Pertronix/Aldon appear to have rationalized the product line and things are now as Pete describes.

Doug

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4 hours ago, Stratton Jimmer said:

I ask because one of their documents says that it is wise to connect an ignition switched 12v supply to the red lead of the system which itself is attached to the red coil terminal.

I suspect that's either a misreading or a mistranslation. As the others have said, the unit itself may not be happy with 6V - and it especially may not be happy with a supply that drops an recovers at twice (or thrice) engine revs. So you shouldn't connect the red wire to the coil on a ballast system - connect it to ignition switched 12V (the white circuit) instead.

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there is a limit to what insulation can take on our old designs  45kv is way above the dizzy cap and rotor capacity 

designed to run at 22kv   we have seen them all give problems when used on 12v fed   6v  ballast coils 

i would be a bit cautious on using 45kv coils 

Pete

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2 minutes ago, Stratton Jimmer said:

0.7 ohm.

ay only 0.7 you seriously up the amps  by  x4    and points burn and  ,condensers will likely fail early 

the general rule is 12v use 3 ohm s  and ballast use 1.5 ohms    same applies if you run a ballast coil on 12v you double the HT and current 

and run a 12v coil on 6v you get weedy spark 

Pete

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38 minutes ago, Stratton Jimmer said:

rated at only 0.7 ohm

As Pete says, not suitable.

Old cars, with points or with crude electronic ignition, had to tolerate the coil being permanently on, at least for a minute or two. The standard setups Pete detailed both settle at around 4A through the coil, which gets it hot but not extreme. A 0.7ohm coil would settle at over 15A - you'll fry the coil, burn the wires and maybe set fire to stuff if that's left on. Such high current / low impedance coils are only suitable for modern vehicles with computer-controlled ignition and a guarantee of limited dwell.

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5 hours ago, Ian Foster said:

Pertronix recommend their Flamethrower 45000V coil for best results with the Ignitor II.

Ian, I have the Ignitor 2 plus 45011 coil (0.6 ohm) as recommended by Pertronix. I bought it from Aldon and after reading the above I phoned them and they said they've never had a problem and most OE systems are 0.6ohm. I do have Magnecor leads and multi electrode plugs and looking at my dizzy cap/rotor arm they look fine. I checked and my system is 12v unballasted. 

Iain 

 

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It runs fine, the only thing it doesn't and never has done is start easily. When I bought the car it was on points and a sports coil of some manufacture but I put the poor starting down to other issues. I fitted the Pertronix and coil (much smoother tick over etc) and the starting was better but still needs cranking. Then it could be the WOSP starter as that makes a 'orrid whining noise...! 

How can it melt the ignition switch contacts? 

Iain 

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Pete

I have a NOS distributor cap, red rotor arm, Magnacor leads and Boche triple electrode plugs, similar to Iain's spec and have not experienced any problems to date.

The Pertronix is supposedly tolerant of the ignition being left on without the engine running. It will be interesting to see if the coil generates any significant heat in this situation 

I could definitely feel the improvement when I changed from a Lucas? sports coil.

Ian

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2 hours ago, Ian Foster said:

The Pertronix is supposedly tolerant of the ignition being left on

That is supposedly the case with the Ignitor 2 system which has a microprocessor within it rather than the simpler Hall effect circuitry of the Ignitor 1. If you leave the ignition on with the engine not running with the Mk1 system, you will burn out the transistor according to Pertronix' own documentation.

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5 hours ago, NonMember said:

The standard setups Pete detailed both settle at around 4A through the coil, which gets it hot but not extreme.

Ohms law is V=IR where I is the current therefore a 3 ohm coil would draw 12/3 = 4 Amps. The 0.7 ohm coil would be drawing a tad over 17 Amps which is wire melting time!

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13 hours ago, Stratton Jimmer said:

Ohms law is V=IR where I is the current therefore a 3 ohm coil would draw 12/3 = 4 Amps. The 0.7 ohm coil would be drawing a tad over 17 Amps which is wire melting time!

I now understand the problem. Even if I upgraded the cable the switch is still vulnerable?

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14 hours ago, Stratton Jimmer said:

Ohms law is V=IR where I is the current therefore a 3 ohm coil would draw 12/3 = 4 Amps. The 0.7 ohm coil would be drawing a tad over 17 Amps which is wire melting time!

but surely that is only a fraction of the time? 1/4? if that? 

So on average just over 4A, which is OK.

Or have I got that wrong?

(of course, ignition left on=bad news!)

My spitfire has a Modern (20 year old...) coilpack. Which is actually a pair of coils, fed with an ignition live, and 2 earths to trigger the spark. That thing can produce a 4" spark, and yet the cables appears to be 7-10A. However, as it is ecu controlled it can't get left on.

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21 minutes ago, clive said:

However, as it is ecu controlled it can't get left on

It is a different kettle of fish if the flow of current to the coil is controlled by an ecu but the Pertronix Ignitor version 1 has no such control and in consequence leaving the ignition on without the engine running can cause serious damage to both the unit and the wiring. In general, momentary pulses of high current are catered for by such things as slow blow fuses and are common enough across many electrical circuits.

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19 hours ago, Iain T said:

How can it melt the ignition switch contacts?

simply by overloading the designed current capacity of the switch internals 

and anything within the circuit ,   not many ignition switches of the era will like 17 amps and probably made to stand 10 amp max  or there abouts

so the sweep contact can get hot  melt the plastic base and the fixed contact stud sinks into the plastic base 

same thing happens with indicator and lamp stalks 

Pete

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2 hours ago, Stratton Jimmer said:

It is a different kettle of fish if the flow of current to the coil is controlled by an ecu but the Pertronix Ignitor version 1 has no such control and in consequence leaving the ignition on without the engine running can cause serious damage to both the unit and the wiring. In general, momentary pulses of high current are catered for by such things as slow blow fuses and are common enough across many electrical circuits.

Maybe it needs a relay, controlled by oil pressure switch so the actual coil etc is only on when the engine is running or at least 7psi oil pressure. 

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