Worrying noise

[Pete Lewis]

Cliff  its a classic  you know whatever you find wrong never cures the problem  its called the Fun of the hobby 

these cars sit out there and listen to you   far better than Alexa and devise a way of getting at you 

normally when its raining and youre in your best shirt  Ha !

good luck

Pete

[cliff.b]

8 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

Cliff  its a classic  you know whatever you find wrong never cures the problem  its called the Fun of the hobby 

these cars sit out there and listen to you   far better than Alexa and devise a way of getting at you 

normally when its raining and youre in your best shirt  Ha !

good luck

Pete

Yes indeed. At least now I don't have to try and fix it (or bodge it) on a cold wet Sunday evening so I can get to work the next day 🤔

[Pete Lewis]

what is this Work   Thing you mention   ive retired at 57 so forgotten   about  Work   20 yrs now 

Pete 

 

[johny]

23 minutes ago, cliff.b said:

Interestingly, this Millers 20w/60 certainly gives a higher pressure but it takes longer before I see pressure on the gauge when starting from cold. The oil light goes out pretty much right away though. I remember someone else who had a start up rattle said it went on for longer with this oil. No noises from mine on start up with either oil but shouldn't a 20w60 oil have similar viscosity to a 20w50 oil when cold?

In theory both those grades should behave like a 20 single grade (thin) oil when cold and then when hot the Millers will be slightly thicker, to behave like a 60 single grade oil, than the 50. However how consistent the measuring of oil thickness is between manufacturers I wouldnt like to say or additionally how quickly an oil loses its original characteristics in use....  

[Pete Lewis]

bit like getting old   you start to feel Thick   !!!!!   often worse when its cold   Ha!

Pete

[cliff.b]

35 minutes ago, johny said:

In theory both those grades should behave like a 20 single grade (thin) oil when cold and then when hot the Millers will be slightly thicker, to behave like a 60 single grade oil, than the 50. However how consistent the measuring of oil thickness is between manufacturers I wouldnt like to say or additionally how quickly an oil loses its original characteristics in use....  

Maybe what's needed is a Winter multigrade and a Summer multigrade oil 🤔

[cliff.b]

46 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

what is this Work   Thing you mention   ive retired at 57 so forgotten   about  Work   20 yrs now 

Pete 

 

Indeed. I retired about two and a half years ago and now I can't imagine how I had time to do it for all those years. Not having a classic car helped, I suppose. 

[johny]

1 hour ago, cliff.b said:

Maybe what's needed is a Winter multigrade and a Summer multigrade oil 🤔

well if everything is working correctly on your car the engine temperature should be pretty stable winter or summer so one mutligrade will do. In fact if you had an engine prewarmer and could get it up to a decent temperature before starting you might get away with a mono grade oil😊

[cliff.b]

Just to (hopefully) close this off, joined a group of fellow enthusiasts for a jaunt around the Leicestershire countryside and so had the opportunity for a thorough test of everything. 

20 main road miles to the meeting point at reasonable speed and then another 40 miles on back roads before a lunch break. Lifted bonnet and can't hear the "worrying noise" 👍

 

Left the group after the stop and made my way back independently and considerably faster but on arriving home, still good 👍👍

 

So, is it due to me now having significantly improved oil pressure? 

And is the oil pressure increase all down to the change in oil, or has improving the cooling combined with the cold weather been a contributory factor 🤔

Certainly today the temp gauge was barely above the 1/4 mark and barely approached 1/2 when I slowed in traffic after driving quickly for quite a few miles. Have to see what happens when the weather gets hotter I suppose.

 

Anyway, it would be nice to know for certain what the issue was but if the noise doesn't come back, I don't think I am going to worry about it obsessively at the moment.

 

I would rather drive it and it was nice to get out today, although it was bl**dy cold at times 🥶

[Pete Lewis]

just to say if the temp gauge is reading low is the thermostat working   should be a 82C  and it should remain closed to the rad flow till it opens 

so regardless of ambient temp the base block should run at the stat setting 

what noise ???    im sure  he crank pulley has  a input here its a mechanical noise  and you have retightened it and the noise has for now gone 

but when its sunny  check the stat is correct 

Pete

 

[Wagger]

13 hours ago, cliff.b said:

Just to (hopefully) close this off, joined a group of fellow enthusiasts for a jaunt around the Leicestershire countryside and so had the opportunity for a thorough test of everything. 

20 main road miles to the meeting point at reasonable speed and then another 40 miles on back roads before a lunch break. Lifted bonnet and can't hear the "worrying noise" 👍

 

Left the group after the stop and made my way back independently and considerably faster but on arriving home, still good 👍👍

 

So, is it due to me now having significantly improved oil pressure? 

And is the oil pressure increase all down to the change in oil, or has improving the cooling combined with the cold weather been a contributory factor 🤔

Certainly today the temp gauge was barely above the 1/4 mark and barely approached 1/2 when I slowed in traffic after driving quickly for quite a few miles. Have to see what happens when the weather gets hotter I suppose.

 

Anyway, it would be nice to know for certain what the issue was but if the noise doesn't come back, I don't think I am going to worry about it obsessively at the moment.

 

I would rather drive it and it was nice to get out today, although it was bl**dy cold at times 🥶

Two of my favourite 1950's cars there. The Riley RM and MG Magnette.  My first car was a BMC Riley 1.5 with that Magnette 1489 twin carb engine. Nearly as qick as my 1600 Vitesse.

As for your noise, my belief is that it was the crank pulley rattling. If it was, now tightened and with Loctite, it won't return unless it is a bolted together pulley with a shock absorber. My 2.5 has one of those.

Anything more serious will return and gradually become worse, just ennjoy it whilst it remains quieter.

[cliff.b]

10 minutes ago, Wagger said:

Two of my favourite 1950's cars there. The Riley RM and MG Magnette.  My first car was a BMC Riley 1.5 with that Magnette 1489 twin carb engine. Nearly as qick as my 1600 Vitesse.

As for your noise, my belief is that it was the crank pulley rattling. If it was, now tightened and with Loctite, it won't return unless it is a bolted together pulley with a shock absorber. My 2.5 has one of those.

Anything more serious will return and gradually become worse, just ennjoy it whilst it remains quieter.

It's a one piece pulley, and surprisingly heavy. I am more than happy to believe it was caused by the pulley, but at this point no way to be certain. But happy at the moment that the noise seems to have gone and will be even happier if that remains the case when/if we get 40C weather this Summer ☀️😎🥵

[cliff.b]

44 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

just to say if the temp gauge is reading low is the thermostat working   should be a 82C  and it should remain closed to the rad flow till it opens 

so regardless of ambient temp the base block should run at the stat setting 

what noise ???    im sure  he crank pulley has  a input here its a mechanical noise  and you have retightened it and the noise has for now gone 

but when its sunny  check the stat is correct 

Pete

 

Regarding the thermostat, after fixing the rad leak I was running it with the rad cap off initially to avoid any pressure and after 20 mins running on my drive the temp gauge was just above 1/4 with no obvious rush of water through the radiator. It was 9nlycabout 6C out though and previously, in warmer weather, I have seen a sudden rush of coolant as the thermostat opened. The water in the top of the rad was about 65C so I am assuming the stat was just opening a little. 

[cliff.b]

42 minutes ago, Wagger said:

Two of my favourite 1950's cars there. The Riley RM and MG Magnette.  My first car was a BMC Riley 1.5 with that Magnette 1489 twin carb engine. Nearly as qick as my 1600 Vitesse.

As for your noise, my belief is that it was the crank pulley rattling. If it was, now tightened and with Loctite, it won't return unless it is a bolted together pulley with a shock absorber. My 2.5 has one of those.

Anything more serious will return and gradually become worse, just ennjoy it whilst it remains quieter.

Regarding the cars, the Magnette is one of many cars owned by the chap who organises the drives out. He is the only one who knows where we are going and we just follow, having to travel at whatever speed he is going. Sometimes there is a hold up at junctions meaning a catch up is required and yesterday I was behind that pristine Morris Oxford when that became necessary. It had a surprising turn of speed.

[cliff.b]

Just one more thing, as I have been talking about oil pressure and running temperatures etc. As part of my investigations I lashed the sensor of one of these thermostats

to the rear of the oil filter and initially, before refitting the mech fan, fitting a smaller number plate, changing the oil and repairing/flushing the rad I was seeing temperatures in the 90s regularly, and particularly when stationary. 

Yesterday, for most of the drive it was in the 60 to 65C range, approaching 70C going home down the A1 and a high of 75C briefly when stopped in traffic.

I know this isn't very scientific but feel it reflects relative temperatures and I am wondering if the mech fan helps  keep the oil cooler to some extent, and not just the coolant? Constant airflow over the block, sump oil filter, even when stationary 🤔

 

[Pete Lewis]

agree the triumph designed machanical fans were developed to cope with all the day to day running most will ever come across

a good airflow under the bonnet to keep carbs etc ata fairly constant temperature is all part of the original design requirements 

such as what triumph engineered did what it said on the tin with no must haves or wild wallet crunching myths and wants that generally just invoke more problems 

so in dinosaur mode  stick with the mech  fan ...........  fit a plastic multi blade  is quieter is about the best you will get

Pete

[Chris A]

2 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

so in dinosaur mode  stick with the mech  fan ...........  fit a plastic multi blade  is quieter is about the best you will get

Pete

I replaced the 4 blade metal unit with a 7 blade plastic one. I think they were also classed as an export upgrade - warmer weather - as I'm in Normandy way down to the south close to the Sarthe I qualify as being in a warmer climate. 😅

[Pete Lewis]

with less mass the plastic dont have the balancing weights to play with like the metal fans (can) have 

and i have seen our Truck fans loose a blade which perforated the floor and hit the roof    Nasty things 

Pete

[Wagger]

1 hour ago, cliff.b said:

Regarding the cars, the Magnette is one of many cars owned by the chap who organises the drives out. He is the only one who knows where we are going and we just follow, having to travel at whatever speed he is going. Sometimes there is a hold up at junctions meaning a catch up is required and yesterday I was behind that pristine Morris Oxford when that became necessary. It had a surprising turn of speed.

Nice to see the collection doing an 'Outing'.

My brother had a 1489cc A55 Cambrige, Farina shape. There were all of the BMC Variants with the Riley and MG being twin Carb with big valve heads. Some were surprisingy sprightly. Most now use the five bearing 1.8 litre when doing rebuilds. I had a colleague with a 1950cc that had a turbo fitted. Gave over 160 bhp. That was hairy!

All of the BMC 'B' series had a 3.5 in stroke, here are the variants from wiki.

Layout
Configuration	Inline-4 and Inline-6
Displacement	Inline-fours: 1.2 L (1,199.6 cc) 1.5 L (1,490 cc) 1.6 L (1,588 cc) 1.6 L (1,623 cc) 1.8 L (1,762 cc) 1.8 L (1,798 cc) Inline-six: 2.4 L (2,433 cc)
Cylinder bore	65.5 mm (2.6 in) 73 mm (2.9 in) 75.4 mm (3.0 in) 76.2 mm (3.0 in) 80.2 mm (3.2 in)
Piston stroke	89 mm (3.5 in)
Block material	Cast iron

[cliff.b]

3 hours ago, Wagger said:

Nice to see the collection doing an 'Outing'.

My brother had a 1489cc A55 Cambrige, Farina shape. There were all of the BMC Variants with the Riley and MG being twin Carb with big valve heads. Some were surprisingy sprightly. Most now use the five bearing 1.8 litre when doing rebuilds. I had a colleague with a 1950cc that had a turbo fitted. Gave over 160 bhp. That was hairy!

All of the BMC 'B' series had a 3.5 in stroke, here are the variants from wiki.

Layout
Configuration	Inline-4 and Inline-6
Displacement	Inline-fours: 1.2 L (1,199.6 cc) 1.5 L (1,490 cc) 1.6 L (1,588 cc) 1.6 L (1,623 cc) 1.8 L (1,762 cc) 1.8 L (1,798 cc) Inline-six: 2.4 L (2,433 cc)
Cylinder bore	65.5 mm (2.6 in) 73 mm (2.9 in) 75.4 mm (3.0 in) 76.2 mm (3.0 in) 80.2 mm (3.2 in)
Piston stroke	89 mm (3.5 in)
Block material	Cast iron

Maybe that Oxford had a 1.8 fitted then. Or maybe they were faster than I realised as 40+ years ago, when they were everywhere, they all seemed to be driven by an old bloke wearing a hat and smoking a pipe while driving 🧐

[Dick Twitchen]

17 hours ago, cliff.b said:

smoking a pipe while driving

Steady on, some of us do that in a GT6.  It, and the car, regularly gets a smile and then comments like 'that smells just like my Grandad used to smoke". 🙂

[Pete Lewis]

 

4 minutes ago, Dick Twitchen said:

just like my Grandad used to smoke".

 

good reason to have an extinguisher at the ready 

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

On 03/03/2023 at 22:00, cliff.b said:

Just to (hopefully) close this off, joined a group of fellow enthusiasts for a jaunt around the Leicestershire countryside and so had the opportunity for a thorough test of everything. 

Lovely collection of 'real' cars. Over here, the usual scenario is MX5, Subaru with big exhaust, lowered BMW, MX5, Ford ST, Triumph Vitesse, Porsche, BMW, more MX5s, more lowered BMWs with blacked-out windows... they all do the elbow-in-the-side nudge-nudge titter-titter at the Vitesse and you can't hear any worrying noises due to loud exhausts.

[cliff.b]

8 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Lovely collection of 'real' cars. Over here, the usual scenario is MX5, Subaru with big exhaust, lowered BMW, MX5, Ford ST, Triumph Vitesse, Porsche, BMW, more MX5s, more lowered BMWs with blacked-out windows... they all do the elbow-in-the-side nudge-nudge titter-titter at the Vitesse and you can't hear any worrying noises due to loud exhausts.

Yes indeed. There are different groups for owners who like that sort of thing here lol

Surely there must be like minded people where you are, or are you unique 🤔

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, cliff.b said:

Yes indeed. There are different groups for owners who like that sort of thing here lol

Surely there must be like minded people where you are, or are you unique 🤔

Starting to worry, Cliff   but then when you're a member of a FB group called "Classic and Retro Cars Northern Ireland pre-2000 only' and people are displaying 2021 BMWs, you start to wonder if you are indeed a dying group. Nice to see the tradition upheld where you are!