Iain T Posted April 18, 2023 Report Share Posted April 18, 2023 I may have mentioned this before (sorry if I'm repeating myself) but after replacing the MC, slave cylinder, clutch plate, clutch cover, thrust bearing (19mm) as part of 'the engines out I only want to do this once' proceedings I've ended up where I started! OK the engine is much better but the clutch has no bite point and on rare occasions it feels as though it slips then grips. I could understand if I was putting 250bhp through it but at around 130bhp the clutch should be OK. The MC is a TRW and cover Borg & Beck. The clutch seems to engage/disengage at the top of the pedal stroke. Any suggestions how to get my bite back or is this normal? I don't remember this on a TR3A I had. I did like my 3A but then I got divorced... Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted April 18, 2023 Report Share Posted April 18, 2023 Are you sure the friction plate is in the right way round Iain? Deeper side of boss outwards otherwise it can jam against the flywheel and interfere with the power transfer through the friction surface? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted April 18, 2023 Report Share Posted April 18, 2023 The things you don’t mention are any wear in the top pivot of the clutch pedal, and any wear in the clutch actuator lever and associated parts. Have you checked / eliminated those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, johny said: Are you sure the friction plate is in the right way round Iain It was installed by the engine builder. He's built engines all his life but everyone can make a mistake. As I have a T9 box the plate is off a Dolly? I bought the plate after a conversation with Canley Classics. 8 minutes ago, Josef said: The things you don’t mention are any wear in the top pivot of the clutch pedal, and any wear in the clutch actuator lever and associated parts. Have you checked / eliminated those? I did inspect when I replaced the mc and there was some play. I thought it acceptable but again I could be wrong. Another chance to stick my head in the footwell. Oh joy! The lever is fine. Iain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted April 18, 2023 Report Share Posted April 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, Iain T said: It was installed by the engine builder. He's built engines all his life but everyone can make a mistake. As I have a T9 box the plate is off a Dolly? I bought the plate after a conversation with Canley Classics. You might be able to inspect the boss with a boroscope if you cant see it by eye through the bell housing operating arm opening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, johny said: You might be able to inspect the boss with a boroscope A new toy to buy! 😁😁 Any suggestions where to get one? I can see endoscope to fit android phones. Any good? Iain Edited April 18, 2023 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted April 18, 2023 Report Share Posted April 18, 2023 Ive got one of those for about 7 quid and its pretty good (just used it in my bores and valves). Takes a bit of practice to recognise what youre looking at sometimes and of course the image is only in focus at very close range. Its a rigid tube about 5" long but I think could be used to view the friction plate boss especially if attached to a piece of wire rod... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2023 Time to raid my Amazon account. Perhaps I'll find that nut that I dropped in the fuel tank well! So in order of tings to do, check pedal pivot and stick the camera somewhere dark🙄 Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted April 18, 2023 Report Share Posted April 18, 2023 Without stealing Iain's thread has anyone tried a concentric clutch slave cylinder as used extensively on modern's, reason for asking is I have an 1850 Dolly single rail gearbox with J Type OD, and major surgery is reqd to the Vitesse/GT6 bellhousing to accommodate the single rail selector and hence the clutch pivot pin and operating lever has to be mangled too. By using a concentric clutch all I'd have to do is make an oil tight boss for the single rail selector where it protrudes thro the front of the gearbox case, as no pivot pin or operating lever is reqd. Would a concentric clutch slave help in Iain's setup/issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted April 19, 2023 Report Share Posted April 19, 2023 Never knew CSC existed, found an utube video, seems a simple device. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2023 10 hours ago, Peter Truman said: anyone tried a concentric clutch slave cylinder as I did think about fitting one and costed it. A lot more expensive than standard but that wasn't at the time the deciding factor. What swayed me was if anything went wrong or leaked it's gearbox out and with cars that are little used I worry about seals etc. In retrospect I wish I had fitted one. Unlike the lever method it's an even central push and used on modern cars. For your application it's perfect but as always you have to get the clearances and distance correct ie choose the one that fits and works! It's not something I need to do immediately but it does bug me. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 19, 2023 Report Share Posted April 19, 2023 have you checked the clutch pedal spindle is not seized on the pedal this stops the Mcyl recuperating as the pedal never returns to its stop the pedal push rod must have a rattle /float with foot off if its under tension the pedal is not returning fully it can also wear the pedal bracket as the shaft with a D flat wears its location and the rotating wears the bracket its all a bit dark under the dash but well worth a look see Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2023 3 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: its all a bit dark under the dash but well worth a look see Wife has first dibs today, she wanted to go shopping so I'll take a peak tomorrow. I think it's something I haven't changed as this dead pedal feeling was the same before I rang all the changes. The only culprit I can think of is the pedal pivot. Something else to play with....I was feeling bored after finishing the boot trim and cleaning the car ready for the show season. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted April 19, 2023 Report Share Posted April 19, 2023 21 hours ago, Josef said: don’t mention are any wear "I might have mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it!" Basil Fawlty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2023 19 hours ago, Peter Truman said: has anyone tried a concentric clutch slave cylinder Pete, I can see lots of options for my Type 9 box but the distance of the bellhousing to clutch cover and gb to end of csc must be the same to fairly close tolerance. The mc may also have to be changed or it might overstroke the csc. This can be 'fixed' by a pedal stop. Lots to think about! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gully Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 The concentric slave failed on my 4x4 Octavia. £1,600 bill (not a main dealer). Undertray off, 4wd transfer box removed, gearbox out - all to change a small, low-cost part. I'll stick with the original GT6 fitment, thanks! 🤣 Gully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Gully said: The concentric slave failed on my 4x4 Octavia. £1,600 bill (not a main dealer). Undertray off, 4wd transfer box removed, gearbox out - all to change a small, low-cost part. I'll stick with the original GT6 fitment, thanks! 🤣 When I was deciding a friend had the same thing happen which put me right off so I too stayed with original. Iain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 (edited) I took a peak at the pedal pivot and mc linkage. It seems OK the pivot does have some play but it's minimal and probably in the pedal box. Not pi**ing about with that. The mc pin has minimal wear. I've ordered new pin and a pedal spring which was definitely not standard. When installed it probably won't improve the feel so it's a case of bedding in the clutch and having fun! Iain Edited April 21, 2023 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 On 20/04/2023 at 19:03, Iain T said: When I was deciding a friend had the same thing happen which put me right off so I too stayed with original. Iain I was only considering the concentric clutch as the major surgery on the Vitesse/GT6 bell housing and clutch lever arm necessary with a single rail gearbox. Let’s face it the small chassis gearbox removal ain’t too difficult! Think I will stick with the original plan as I did with the Spitfire put the single rail internals into a 3 rail case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 (edited) I think its a great idea especially in a rear wheel drive like ours as easier to get to if necessary. I see there was a thread you replied to back in 2020 Peter that had drawings and photos on the same mod someone had done... Edited April 22, 2023 by johny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 pedal springs on many this is not just a return spring but evens out the loads of engage /disengage as the down stroke and return stroke loads are quite different and often a spring is used to even out the feel under the foot , quite common on diaphragm covers. dont think they did this on the small chassis cars but there can be more to a pedal spring than meets the eye Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 (edited) I'll post an update when fitted. I might also try and get the pivot spindle out (it seems stuck in even after I removed the circlips) and take a look at clearances and the pedal box spindle hole. These are things that occupy my mind at 2am. I do wish they wouldn't! Edited April 22, 2023 by Iain T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 think on mine we welded a washer to reform the pedal box the shaft needed pressing out the pedal bushes.... long time ago now getting the pedal box off is easy enough same bolts as the Mcyl bracket Clutch Pedal : Canley Classics its not something anyone bothers to oil with a squirt can mine was a 64 car and had a D hole and shaft with a flat so it didnt rotate in the brkt. but it wore that out and ended up witht wo round worn holes to repair maybe add a greaser for future servicing of the pedal bushes Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 It may be easier to remove the pedal box than try to drive the shaft out. At least I'll be able to see what I'm doing. If worn the washer fix will work but it all depends on if I can refit with the shaft circlips. At the doctors now waiting for the inlaws to be covid booster jabbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 22, 2023 Report Share Posted April 22, 2023 i just dont remember i had this idea we used split pins but early parts list shows circlips the knackered shaft may have been a diy job brain fog Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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