Zero compression on cylinder 4

[Kelv]

I've emailed Hugh 

[Kelv]

Bernard Littlewood says he can fix it and I'm going to get the vehicle transported to him hopefully next week. 

[Pete Lewis]

that sounds a good plan  if possible  Keep us up to date with the progress and whats found 

Pete

Edited August 25, 2023 by Pete Lewis

[DanMi]

get him to confirm what engine you have before any work, as I am 100% sure that is an 1147cc or smaller. It has 6 cylinder head nuts on the manifold side not 5, there are clearly 2 inlet ports not 4 and I can clearly see the aluminium pushrod tubes that were only present on the early engines. Plus the rocker could not come off the 1300 rocker shaft as the pedestal goes both sides. A good used engine may be your best bet. (I god I sound like a Triumph geek)

[JohnD]

Kelv,

You are in what to you is deep water, without any swim rings.    I repeat my suggestion that local help may provide a lifebelt, when advice from here can only give you encouragement. Call your LAG, asap!

John

[Kelv]

6 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

that sounds a good plan  if possible  Keep us up to date with the progress and whats found 

Pete

I certainly will

[Kelv]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Kelv,

You are in what to you is deep water, without any swim rings.    I repeat my suggestion that local help may provide a lifebelt, when advice from here can only give you encouragement. Call your LAG, asap!

John

I did call my LAG. that's for the advice! 

[Kelv]

Here's my v5, if it's of interest. I'm puzzled now about whether it is INDEED a 1296 CC. 

[Kelv]

The car is very much a 'bitzer' with disc brakes, gt6 wheels and overdrive gear box.

[Pete Lewis]

the answer is the engine number   stamped on the block near the   lh  rear corner on the protuding head face 

Engine Number Identification Chart : Canley Classics

and have to ask with all the help have received  have you thought about joining the TSSC   ???

just asking   

Pete

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Pete Lewis

[Kelv]

I was a paid member last year when I first bought my herald and forgot to renew. I'll make myself a member again but think I'm soon going to be skint lol. 

[Kelv]

Thanks for the chart. So, being a GF serial number I expect it is an early 13/60 engine. So were there 7 different iterations of the 13/60 engine then GE,GF,GG,GH,GI,GJ,GK?

[Kelv]

It definitely reads GF on the block and matches the V5 perfectly

[Kelv]

The chart implies that GE to GK are solely for the 13/60 variant engines. There must have been 7 versions designed, spanning a few years of production. That's all I can think.

[johny]

Triumph are famous for the often poor quality of the stamping of serial numbers on components so I wonder if it isnt GE that looks like an F? Easily done on the production line or maybe the other guy was using the E stamp already....

[Pete Lewis]

another list no GF    i would also feel its a mis strike   E   is there any sign its been ground down and re stamped at some time ?? or looks original 

Triumph number prefixes (team.net)

Pete

[DanMi]

I am not looking at the engine number but the engine itself. The simplest clue is that it has 6 head studs where the later engine has 5,  also look at the holes where the pushrods go through they are like this 1147cc on https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303396064559

not like this 1300/1500 

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/modified-cylinder-heads.html

could the F be a badly stamped B plus engines may have been decked and restamped

 

plus if you look in the photo with the valve guide missing you can clearly see a single inlet pipe so it has the siamese inlet ports of the 1147

 

I guess some PO may have drilled a 1300 block to take an 1147cc head but I am not sure if that is possible and certainly not sensible

Edited August 26, 2023 by DanMi

[DanMi]

by the way there is nothing wrong with having an 1147cc. My mk2 spit 1147cc engine is great

 

[Chris Longhurst]

I would agree with the 'mistrike' theory turning GE to GF

In other 'interesting' news - the Commission (Chassis) # GA18376DL was originally from a saloon. Although the body type is described as a Convertible the DL suffix identifies it as a 'DeLuxe' saloon; convertibles have a CV suffix.

I would not be too concerned - my 1200 Convertible is on a saloon chassis frame & bulkhead - something I did in the late 1980s as, although the convertible rear tub was very good, the chassis & front bulkhead were beyond my repair capabilities. The biggest challenge was putting the hooks for the hood catches in the top of the saloon bulkheads windscreen surround - I can't remember exactly how I did it!! I had no problem registering the change with the DVLA (or whatever they were called back then)

Chris (78/00350)

[DanMi]

25 minutes ago, Chris Longhurst said:

would agree with the 'mistrike' theory turning GE to GF

That would not explain the siamesed inlet ports aluminium pushrod tubes and head stud arrangements all definitive characteristics of an 1147cc cylinder head

[johny]

I agree with you Dan, engine highly unlikely to be a GE either. All indications point to it being a 1147 (GB?)

[Wagger]

I know that I am posting very late on in this, but I am puzzled as to how the spring and collets became disconnected unless this was done during an incorrect dismantling process. I can understand it if the valve stem broke, but I cannot see any part of the valve in the pictures, so the whole valve must be in the cylinder. It looks like the collets or tip of the stem failed. Valve guides should be an interference fit in the head too, not a sliding fit. If they are cast iron, you will not be able to knurl them. Fit oversize bronze if they are available, or knurl them.

Also, if the rocker shaft moved due to retainers missing, what else has a previous owner missed. I would replace the engine or completely strip and rebuild it.

As others suggest, get help from yor local group as their experience will be second to none. Those of us who owned these cars in the 1970's worked on them far more than newly qualified mechanics.

Do NOT try to turn the engine over until the head is removed and you have inspected the bores for contents.

[johny]

See my previous conjecture although I now see this engine doesnt have collets as such - the spring cap has off centred holes so you put it over the valve stem (spring compressed) and then slide it over to lock. However I think it could still be released as I suggest but what I dont understand is how the engine ran so long with the rocker shaft end cap missing or how the loss of compression (the original problem) is related.... 

[Wagger]

2 minutes ago, johny said:

See my previous conjecture although I now see this engine doesnt have collets as such - the spring cap has off centred holes so you put it over the valve stem (spring compressed) and then slide it over to lock. However I think it could still be released as I suggest but what I dont understand is how the engine ran so long with the rocker shaft end cap missing or how the loss of compression (the original problem) is related.... 

Thanks for pointing out no collets on that engine. Wear on a stem, valve bounce due toa missed gear or incorrect assembly could be the cause.

Looks like a cheap car hire until it is fixed is the best solution to transport problems. Maybe a friend or family member has a spare car?

My son would do a 'Try before you Buy' option on a new car. He has a load of nerve.

[DanMi]

20 minutes ago, Wagger said:

Thanks for pointing out no collets on that engine. Wear on a stem, valve bounce due toa missed gear or incorrect assembly could be the cause.

Looks like a cheap car hire until it is fixed is the best solution to transport problems. Maybe a friend or family member has a spare car?

My son would do a 'Try before you Buy' option on a new car. He has a load of nerve.

the rocker shaft end cap is missing so the rocker will have moved and hit the valve cap rather than the valve stem thus dislodging it.