Timing Light

[SpitfireGeorge]

Hi Guys,

Watching car shows such as Wheeler Dealers they use timing lights which display the number of degrees on a small led screen. Will they work with older type cars like ours?

Cheers Brett 

 

[johny]

Yes these work on all our cars just like any conventional strobe light. Dont get too excited though as theyre just a posh version which allows you to dial in the degrees of advance you want to set the timing at. Then, with engine running, when you rotate the dizzy to get the pulley mark and crankcase pointer to indicate TDC it will be set with the desired advance. Useful I suppose if your car doesnt have any additional degrees marked on the pulley or crankcase either side of TDC... 

[KevinR]

1 hour ago, johny said:

Useful I suppose if your car doesnt have any additional degrees marked on the pulley or crankcase either side of TDC... 

Absolutely essential on an old 1980’s VW. Tiny hole in the bell housing with a timing mark at TDC on the flywheel.

I’ve got an old analogue Gunsons one that works a treat, never found it necessary to go for a fancy digital readout one.

[dougbgt6]

I don't use a strobe, I do it by ear, turn the dizzy for maximum revs then back a gnats. Take it for a run, if it pinks, a gnats more. 

You can also do it by vacuum, turn the dizzy for maximum vacuum then back 1 bar, take it for a run......... etc.

The two methods are completely compatible.

The problem with the strobe is that there's wear and slack in the system so just because the strobe says it's right, doesn't mean it's right.

Doug

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by dougbgt6

[johny]

Are you sure Doug? Surely when the spark is detected by the electronics in these bits of kit it works out the time between each (720º) and can calculate when to flash the strobe to give the degrees of advance youve selected. Unlike doing it using the operation of the points/electronic ignition any wear and slack in the system shouldnt affect a strobe check...

[Stratton Jimmer]

1 hour ago, KevinR said:

I’ve got an old analogue Gunsons one that works a treat,

Me too. Nothing too fancy and less to go wrong. I won't be changing it anytime soon.

[SpitfireGeorge]

Thanks guys, nice to get your advice.

[Pete Lewis]

i have for some daft reason got two xenon  with a dial for degree's ones snap on in  chrome, one is 

draper  same unit but in black , you can only use one at a time   but they have worked well for many years 

who remembers the old neon ones you could only see in the dark ?????

but most time i just use the Ears 

Pete

[dougbgt6]

17 hours ago, johny said:

Are you sure Doug? Surely when the spark is detected by the electronics in these bits of kit it works out the time between each (720º) and can calculate when to flash the strobe to give the degrees of advance youve selected. Unlike doing it using the operation of the points/electronic ignition any wear and slack in the system shouldnt affect a strobe check...

 

 

Yes you're correct, but the strobe fires and illuminates the timing marks on the wheel which may not be the number you've selected on you're devise, leading to much consternation and head scratching. Just because the timing marks says its 7 degrees BTDC doesn't mean it is.

I'm with Pete, except I like to do Ears and Eyes (vacuum gauge) at the same time, very satisfying that they both come out the same. 

Doug

[johny]

If I understand the device correctly you no longer use any degree marks on the pulley or crankcase just the TDC mark which under the strobe should line up when you have the timing correctly adjusted according to the advance youve selected on the dial/buttons👍

[Ian Foster]

GT6/Vitesse WSM says 10deg BTDC static, 12deg with strobe. I've always assumed that the difference is to allow for backlash in the dizzy drive components.

It is worth checking the accuracy of your crank markings and compensating accordingly if required.

Pinking under load is also a useful indicator of what the engine wants.

Ian 

 

 

[johny]

Ive never actually found a dynamic timing setting for Vitesse/GT6 only static from the manual at 13º BTDC for mk1 engine and 10º for mk2 (except mk3 GT6). Then Ive always assumed the actual spark as shown by a strobe will arrive fractionally AFTER this due to time to produce spark (think any mechanical backlash should have been taken up in the correct setting process)... 

[dougbgt6]

1 hour ago, johny said:

ve never actually found a dynamic timing setting for Vitesse/GT6 only static from the manual at 13º BTDC for mk1 engine and 10º for mk2 (except mk3 GT6). Then Ive always assumed the actual spark as shown by a strobe will arrive fractionally AFTER this due to time to produce spark (think any mechanical backlash should have been taken up in the correct setting process)... 

Only with 5 star fuel, I think mine's around 7 with modern lawnmower special. 

Doug

[johny]

set my mk1 to 13º with strobe on 95 ok although chuck in some octane booster sometimes if Im feeling rich🤑

[Puglet1]

On 11/11/2023 at 17:36, dougbgt6 said:

I don't use a strobe, I do it by ear, turn the dizzy for maximum revs then back a gnats. Take it for a run, if it pinks, a gnats more. 

You can also do it by vacuum, turn the dizzy for maximum vacuum then back 1 bar, take it for a run......... etc.

The two methods are completely compatible.

The problem with the strobe is that there's wear and slack in the system so just because the strobe says it's right, doesn't mean it's right.

Doug

 

 Hi Doug, 

What type of vacuum gauge would you use and where would it be connected?

Pete.

[Pete Lewis]

one with a 270 degree needle sweep you have to drill the manifold to collect manifold vacuum

the pipe often needs a squash to damp needle vibrations 

you aim for around 18-21 in.hg  (sorry im old school)

any vac gauge will work doesnt need to car derived 

a 4" Brass one is probably out of place  !!!!

Pete

[dougbgt6]

Pete,

Mine is a Smiths, it came with the restrictor/damper Mr L mentions and I put a "T" piece in my servo vacuum feed. Some off the 2 litre manifolds are ready drilled even if there's no servo, they just put a stopper bolt in. 

On a 2 litre turn the dizzy for maximum, around 21, then back off to 20.

(I've changed the ammeter for a voltmeter, I prefer an ammeter but the wiring gets a little too hot for my liking!)

 

 

Doug

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by dougbgt6

[Puglet1]

Pete Lewis & Doug.

I have an old vacuum gauge that has been in my toolbox since the 70’s. - see photo.

My carbs are off at the moment so I guess I have the choice of drilling the manifold where no.1 carb sits OR fitting a T piece to the servo outlet.

 I intend to use the gauge for setting up purposes only.

Whichever method I use will be for the purpose of setting up the timing only.

Can either of you suggest what type of adapter I can use and where I can buy it from?

Many thanks to both of you .

Pete

[68vitesse]

Didn't drill manifold when I fitted servo to my Vitesse, bought 16mm Banjo fittings and fitted a drilled, from memory, a 5/8UNF set screw with the had cut of and a stainless acorn nut.

Could use same method for a vacuum guage.

Regards

Paul

 

[Puglet1]

Paul. Thank you for the photo. I need have a good look at my servo to manifold connection and find out what alternative adapters are available .

Pete.