** ON TO THE NEXT BIT ** Nose to Tail - 1972 Spitfire MkIV restoration upgrades!!

[Badwolf]

Pete - Why does my spring and those on fleabay have the extra bracket. I would have thought that four or 6 symmetrical but not five (apart from Doug's idea).

As for the washer, sadly I don't weld but a couple of loose washers, one on either side should sort it.

Not sure about hand pressing the plate as there is a large nut thingy to get the plate over, hence the hole in the plate. It may be easier to disassemble the spring especially as the leaves have been knocked out of alignment by the garage's attempt to force the crush washer in.

While I have the spring out, is it worth waxoiling/dinitroling it?

[Pete Lewis]

well its a good few years since we messed with a swinger, dont remember dismantle to insert it but hey ho.

springs   you can oil them  they attract road dirt and wear the pads out, oiled springs use to be covered in string or a leather jacket

i was always taught  keep em  dry 

its a preference thing again

 the muppets who even managed to fit the spring as you have found  ....they must be clever to make a  insane bodge of that assembly

its worrying that there are supposed  reliable traders you should be able to trust .....bit like the wheel cyl held on with a tywrap as we found on classic expert trader repair 

if you do  DIY and use a little loaf a smidgin  of  simple research its only you to blame if it goes off the wall but pay good money and get  passed a job like that is   downright fraud.

we can all get it wrong at times , but your experience  ...........  takes the biscuit

makes my blood boil ... where trading standards ... rogue traders  etc'

 

pete

[Colin Lindsay]

I wrap mine* in plumbers grease impregnated tape, secured with tie-wraps. Not in between the leaves, as Pete says those parts are dry, but if wrapped around the outside of the assembled spring it stops dirt getting in between the leaves and keeps rust at bay much longer than just exposed metal. 

* my rear leaf spring.

The nut / bolt head of the locating peg fits into the hole in the plate, so the nut itself is on the top, and then the tube can be centralised in the gap above, and the top cover compressed down until the bolt holes line up - see lower photo.

 

 

[NonMember]

2 hours ago, Badwolf said:

Pete - Why does my spring and those on fleabay have the extra bracket. I would have thought that four or 6 symmetrical but not five (apart from Doug's idea).

I've had a bit of a think on this and I suspect the answer is really simple. All of the images I've found of swing springs with that fifth bracket (which isn't shown in the WSM) are of "new" springs consisting of the stack of leaves only, without the cover assembly. In service, it's the cover assembly that holds the top few leaves in place. If you're selling a stack of leaves minus cover, then you need something to hold it all together - hence the extra bracket.

[Pete Lewis]

Nm  ,  that rings a bell 

    sounds a plan .    remove after assemble then ???

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

This is an NOS spring from a few years back, and the leaves were held together with a metal strip in the same place. I can see how they would use an upside-down bracket for the same purpose. The question is: should the extra bracket be removed prior to fitting or use?

[NonMember]

I would have thought the strap on that NOS spring would not have been re-fittable after assembling the plate and cover, so yes, I think the intent is that the fifth clamp is discarded (or dropped in a box of spares) on fitting.

[Waynebaby]

The fifth clamp definitely should be binned. When I replaced my spring I didn’t need to dismantle the whole assembly to get the the plate in between the lower two leaves. If you shove a large bladed screwdriver between the leaves and twist it through 90 degrees you should be able to open things up enough to wiggle the plate into position.

[Badwolf]

Thanks Wayne - I think I will have to disassemble the whole unit or at least slacken off the clamps as, as you can see from the photo on the previous page, the gorilla with the hammer has knocked all the spring leaves out of alignment and they probably now all need 're-stacking'.

[Waynebaby]

The ineptitude demonstrated by the “professional mechanic” beggars belief. If you are going to separate all the leaves will you take the opportunity to replace the rubber inserts that sit between the leaves with polyurethane buttons? Hopefully a fit and forget modification.

[Badwolf]

Not really considered it as this spring was bought in August 2017 from JP. It was delivered to me and taken in its wrappings to the garage who had mot failed the car as the previous spring had a broken leaf. They fitted it and passed it for mot. I noticed something strange (see earlier postings) when I replaced the shock absorbers and found the disaster chronicled, earlier today. So, no, I was not going to replace the rubber inserts at the moment as they have only done 400miles, but thanks for thinking about it for me. Having said that, I actually did replace the spring eye bushes with poly last year along with the shock absorber bushes, so on second thoughts, if you have a link for the polybush buttons, it may just be worth a look while everything is all over the garage floor. Can't find any on first look through.

[Waynebaby]

10 hours ago, Badwolf said:

if you have a link for the polybush buttons, it may just be worth a look while everything is all over the garage floor. Can't find any on first look through.

I'm struggling to find a link myself. I got my inter-leaf buttons (also called thrust buttons) three or four years ago and can't for the life of me remember where I got them from. I've looked through the Super pro and Polybush listings and cant see anything. I note that the club shop sells the swing spring pad so it might be worth giving Angie a call to see if the shop also stocks the inter-leaf buttons.

Wayne

[Badwolf]

Thanks Wayne.  Not to worry as at 10am this morning there was a loud thump in the hall and the metal plate and other bits that I ordered from C@nleys arrived, 22 hours after ordering it.  Exceptionally good service. 

Things are starting to look up on this job, at long last.

Is there a front and back to the spring and is it important. There are no stamps or engraving marks that I can see. The Haynes says that the front is 'ground', but I don't see any differences.

[Waynebaby]

The speed of delivery from Canleys is always very impressive.

There doesn't appear to be front or back to the spring (there are several theories as to where the instruction about directionality came from) so it doesn't matter which way around you fit the spring itself. Some people seem to prefer to make sure that the head of the bolt that passes through the sping box faces the front to minimise corrosion on the thread.

Wayne

[Pete Lewis]

unless someone wants to fit a spring and then reverse it and see if the eye's change position there seems no design criteria about to 

explain the idea of the spring being marked   'Front'  ...if there is any reason.

there were tales to stop operators asking which way round on the assy line they marked front to save any confusion

but ive not come across a spring new or old marked with anything apart from it's   time for a cuppa  ???

where is  Dave when you want some Orig clues 

Pete

[Badwolf]

Not to worry. Its all back together and, for good or bad, given a light coating of waxoyl to act as a grinding paste for the future. Interesting this spring has a 'heritage part' sticker on it, but the bolts appear to be metric - still no worry, apart from it having 3 nylocs and a standard nut on the straps. Looking to fit a nyloc from store was how I found out as my UNF nuts (don't start!!!) don't fit.  I have added spring washers, probably not needed apart from the paranoia with this job. Will photograph for the record tomorrow and fit if raining (otherwise its gardening). The off centre nature of the original gorilla installation maybe the reason why one side was higher than the other, as Pete mentioned earlier up this thread. I will be interesting to measure body height and camber when its all back together. Thank you all... as usual for your advice and support.

[Badwolf]

Now, the next thing is, obviously, to refit the spring. What is the best sequence of fitting the bolts/nuts to make the job easier. As I see it there are 5 steps after replacing the spring assembly:

1. Fit spring eye bolts

2. Fit studs through spring box to diff

3. Fit nuts to studs

4. Tighten nuts on studs

5. Re-fit bottom shock absorber nuts

but what is the best order to make the job as easy as possible? If you have a super easy assembly method, would you please share!!

[Pete Lewis]

i would have fit spring and box to the diff , not fully tightened , then when all in place  lightly jack the upright to fit the eye bolts  then the shockers then torqure the box stud/nuts when happy  all is aligned ok

check brake pipes clear the eye s when its on the  deck.

bleed brakes /change fluid  while it up in the air if you want to.

rear bearing grease is from the manual 4 pumps  ,  ( what pumps i have no idea but too much makes the brakes slippy Ha )

Pete

[NonMember]

It depends a little on how firm your spring is. Pete's order may work but it's sometimes easier to put a couple of lengths of 3/8 UNF threaded rod through the spring box (opposite corners) to locate it above the diff, then attach the vertical links through the spring eyes before running a couple of nuts down the threaded rod until you can secure with the proper studs in the other corners, then swap out the threaded rods for the other two proper studs. Jack the hubs to fit the shockers before tightening the diff attachment. Long studs from a Herald estate may serve in place of threaded rod.

[Pete Lewis]

its all down to preference but fit the spring with no load is easy  with it attached its under load , its easier to lift /manouver the upright 

 and stick the eye bolts in   than fight to fit the box under load and get all the leaves and spigots nicely aligned and no swapping long studs etc.

idea do it both ways and let us know 

[NonMember]

True, I wouldn't suggest attaching the shocks before the spring is at least loosely fitted to the diff, but the axles can drop a little bit further and, in cases where the spring has a lot of curve, fitting them first avoids needing to jack the spring ends (which would need a spring lifter bar).

[Mjit]

On the many, many times I seem to have had to take the spring in and out on my swing spring Spitfire I've always used the following and never had any issues:

1. Spend time trying to get it in and over the diff.  This is usually the hardest part.
2. I use a 3/4 lowering block so with the spring in about the right place but not seated fight that in.
3. Jiggle everything to get the diff. studs in.
4. Torque down spring to diff.
5. A little gentle jacking under the vertical link, then wiggling a drift through the upright/spring eye holes to get them lined up and hen add/torque up spring eye bolt.
6. Pop on damper and torque up.
7. Drop jack and repeat on other side.

[Badwolf]

Ok. That's the job for the morning. Just a thought. This spring is now going to be sitting half an inch lower than it was before I took it out (the thickness of the plate that was bridging the diff plus the thickness of the bottom spring that locates in the diff channel that was sitting on top of the plate. It will be interesting to see the final height of everything.

[Pete Lewis]

i would not use spring washers on the box nuts  the spec is WP0045 plain washer 

spring washers were found detrimental to holding torque  and most manufactureres dumped  spring washers in the late 70s when 

more torque control  and quality audit  of most fixing became the norm  .

even things like nylock nuts became questionable and many got replaced with plain nuts and flat washers or washer faced nuts 

you dont need the history of paint colours dabbed on nuts to show they had been torqued  or checked 

automatic these days but in the 70s you could find the guy with the spanner and the guy with the paint were 5 mins apart 

as measured day rates broke jobs into managable chunks without understanding the needs to have common operations all together 

modern production guns add a dab when torque is achieved .. (i spent months/years  developing some of these idea's.)

Pete

 

[Badwolf]

This has been one of the worst days of working on a car in my life.  Started off well with this...

.. ready to go in... which it wouldn't.

After considerable huffing, puffing, and other stuff it went in, eventually.  So 4 bolts into the diff.. oh yes.  Doug was right, the box thingy must have been distorted by the gorilla.  Eventually got them to go in but wouldn't go in all the way... spring not sitting on the diff properly. Take it out again and file more of the burr off the pin thingy.  Back in again. Bolts back in but won't go in all the way.  Fiddled and messed about for hours, yes really, and somehow got them to in in further.  I should have ordered new studs as these appear to also have been gorilla'd. One sticking out a little further than the others but discretion as I did not, on any count, want to force it further and, with my luck at the moment, snap it. Then had a major fight refitting the spring eye bolts, shock absorbers and radius arm bolts, all of which I took off eventually after realising that shot cuts were not going to work. So, 7 hours later, she is back on all four wheels. Although the wheels are still as dropped from the jack, that is not run to settle the camber, the rear wings are both 26 inches from floor to highest point.  Maybe a little high but I will let everything settle.  I do not intend doing it again unless something totally disastrous happens. If anyone has a MKIV Spit and a tape measure could I trouble you to measure the highest point of the rear wing arch from the fround please so that I can compare with mine. Thanks

Thank you for all the input, and hopefully, I can now get on with the next bit.