** ON TO THE NEXT BIT ** Nose to Tail - 1972 Spitfire MkIV restoration upgrades!!

[Anglefire]

Could well be right John as it’s made with polyisocyanates which I guess could break down to cyanide 

[Badwolf]

Yes, I know about the problems related to 2K products and assumed that 2K thinners would have the same risks.

[Clive]

Not the thinners, that is as safe (or unsafe) as all the others thinners. It is also used for basecoat (the stuff that needs a laquer) which is as safe, if not safer, than cellulose paint

Best do any 2k brush (or roller....) work in a well ventilated area, and keep off your skin. But not much risk of inhaling anything but the thinners vapour.

Usual primer mix is 4:1 (primer:hardener)+10%ish thinners. Topcoat 2 or 3:1+thinners, though plenty come ready thinned.

[Badwolf]

Thanks everyone for your help and concern. I think the latest plan is now:

Strip paint, either manually or with stripper

Treat rust as needed

Brush/roller 2k epoxy primer x 2

Fill dents as needed

Reapply 2k as needed to rub throughs etc and Flat

Mist coat and Flat

Primer and dry flat (although I might flat the 2k down to P1200 and omit the extra primer if things are going well as it was damp in the zinc oxide primer that caused my problems initially and I don't want the same to happen)

Spray Top Coats. After several weeks to allow the paint to fully harden off, final flatting and cutting compound finish

Making good any extra damage and extra  flatting down as needed using progesively finer paper etc etc.

Still got to get the doors (se earlier posts) to fit properly yet!!!

 

[Badwolf]

Ok, so doing a pre-MOT check service. Everything is going well at the moment (that's put the kiss of death on it) and dipped the oil to find that it looks clean with no muck etc. Now, as mentioned on other threads, this is Wilko's 'best' 20/50 which was put in as a 'flushing oil' about 18 months ago after the car was recommissioned, with the plan of replacing it after running the car for a 'season'. Now this oil has done 400 miles and, as mentioned, is clean.  Should I just dump it and refill or leave it for the summer and replace after I have done more mileage, prior to the winter lay-up.  Not a question of cheap, as I have plenty of oil in stock - just don't want to waste the time if replacement is not needed

[johny]

Really what you need is an oil testing service! You send them a sample and they can check its level of degradation and contamination including which metals are present to let you know what components are wearing. Complete peace of mind and it cant be that expensive, can it?

[Pete Lewis]

drive it  change it after the season if you must ,

dont get paranoid about oil ,  its slippy stuff   wilkco will suffice many a car for many a mile 

and  flushig in general is not a good idea as it can loosen old deposits and pump them into your bearings 

in the old days some  old geaser would add half paraffin and run it to free up all the old but  you dont want that 

its still clear its shows the engine is in fair fettle ..   just use it ,    leave the crud set where its found a  home and sleep easy

with the mileages most cover , one fill will do two years 

Pete

[Badwolf]

Johny - Thanks for that. I didn't know you could get oil tested like that. Having had a look around the engine since my post, I think I will dump the oil and replace. I need to replace the sump gasket (weeping) and also the drain plug, assuming that the one supplied by JP fits as there have been problems with these on other threads. The old one is looking very much the worse for wear - more round than square. Just trying to save a bit of work and a trip to the recycling depot with the old oil. My Dad used to use old oil on his shed. Oily brush in one hand... lit fag in his mouth. Not these days!!!

Thanks Pete - Always a voice of sanity and, of couse, practicality

 

[Badwolf]

During my crawling about doing other stuff apart from the oil check prior to putting the car in for its MOT, I was doing the back brakes etc and while the wheel was off noticed this....

What you are looking at are two photographs both of the retaining plate (saddle) which holds the leaf spring to the diff. Due to the restricted space it was difficult to light and photograph both sides at the same time, hence the two photos. What concerns me is that there appears to be a gap under both the front and back of the saddle along with an uneven amount of visible bolt at the top. The new leaf spring was fitted by my local garage who did the original MOT at the same time last year.  Do I have cause for concern or is this normal?

[Pete Lewis]

its not clear on the pics , but is this a swinger box it looks like a flat  plate of the fixed spring , 

if so dont recognise the assembly,   if it is a swinger box it should sit ontop of the plate fitted above the 1st leaf and all clamps down ontop of the diff  so from the diff  it is  1 leaf,  the plate ,box on top with remaining leafs inside with through bolt and tube in the deformed .

if this is a non swinger then there is just a flat plate on top with 6 studs no spacer tube or box arrangement

sorry memory and books dont match up with the pics 

Pete

[Badwolf]

Thanks Pete - I believe that it is this.. https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-159641

which sits over the leaf spring and is held in place by 4 studs screwed into the diff.  I was concerned by the apparent gap at the bottom. Photographing it is not easy and I don't, at the moment, want to take out the back interior trim and the metal inspection plate at the moment. I did get the spring and the fitting hardware from JPs but it will take a little time to find the receipt with the part numbers.  I do remember collecting numerous bolts/studs, the retaining plate, a flat plate and a few other bits and pieces as the spring that came off appeared to be from a Mk3. The assembly does look like the MkIv assembly shown here: https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID005746

Addition - Yes the Leaf spring is ref  159640, the 'spring box top' 159641and the rest of the hardware matches up with the parts diagram.

[Colin Lindsay]

I think - hard to tell - that your plate that SHOULD be on top of the bottom leaf is actually under it, hence the gap. On the left pic you have posted, you can see where the bottom leaf should be in that slot on top of the diff, and in the right pic you can see where the plate has bent down into the empty space. This is why you have a gap at the bottom of the box; it's meant to be 1/4 inch or so higher. Have a look at this pic and compare. In fact, I'll post two...

 

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

Yes it could contribute to a ĺean

Its all got to be refitted in the right order, the bent plate will need some flattening.

The bottom leaf must be in the diff case with the plate over it or there is   no control over the spring  dowel to locate in the diff case

Its often referred to as the safety leaf being the fixed leaf, all the others sort of float.

[Badwolf]

Pete - Sorry but I have managed to delete my previous post asking about this possibly contributing to one side riding higher than the other.

There shouldn't be a bent plate, unless the garage bent it when fitting, the whole assembly including the spring was new. So it looks like it has to come out and be put in properly. I was hoping that it may just have been a case of torquing down the nuts.

The next question is how safe is it for the time being, seeing as how if has been like this for about 18 months? This is what you get when you leave a modern garage with a stack of spare parts a WSM & Haynes.

This has become apparent after fitting the new polybushes and shock absorbers!!! I assumed that the lean was due to something that I had done. Since working on the back suspension I have become more aware of things not being quite right. It is a more comfortable ride though.

If I have to strip out and refit the spring etc, is there any great advantage in replacing the rubber pad with a polybush one, while the spring is out?

[Badwolf]

Colin - Yes what has been fitted looks just like your photos but with gaps between the bottom of the saddle shaped top fixing plate and the plate which goes between the bottom leaf and the next one up. There is also a lot of difference beween the amount of bolt thread showing, on the two that I can see,

[Pete Lewis]

The rubber top bush when I fitted one to my vit6 lasted very short life and got minced quickly, , fitted a poly pad  and then removed the dreaded thing and sold it to Kevin  so no if if its better or not  as you cant tell its missing who knows   Ha !!!

So is your base leaf actually fitted ontop of  the plate not under it  yikes ?!!!!!

Pete

 

[Badwolf]

Pete - Wheels off again this morning and a careful look and poke around.  You are correct, what appears to have been done is that the plate which is supposed to go between the bottom leaf and the second has been put across the top of the diff under the whole spring. then the top box (saddle) has been bolted down on top bending the plate. The whole assembly is now too 'fat' for the 'saddle' piece, to sit down on top of the diff, hence the gaps and also why the plate is bent. With the advice from you and Colin, I now see what the garage has done. Even with supplying the manuals etc!!  I cannot see whether the rubber mounting pad has been fitted at the moment but it is listed along with all the other components on the JP bill which, I must admit, I didn't check off with the contents of the bag of bits (yes, I know), as I was in a rush to get the parts back from Chester to the garage and also didn't, at that time know one part from another.

So, yes, it will have to come out and the plate straightened and put back together properly. My question, short term is, is it safe for the moment as I need the car for the weekend and am worried that if I have problems, it may not go back together in time!!  It has done 400 miles as it is at the moment. Should it be OK for another 40 miles, or should I take the risk of stripping it down. Is it possible that the garage has put the spring is back to front, even though there should be a locating peg or 'front' marked on it somewhere?? At least they didn't put it in upside down.

No pressure, and I respect that you are doing this by 'remote control' and the final decision of what to do is mine. I am still mindful of the stripped threads on the spring eye bolt, mentioned earlier in this thread. That was down the to same garage!! Thanks in advance. BW

[Pete Lewis]

the studs take the weight, the location does just that , so for a short sunny run i would use her and plan repair for when its raining

it will be ok youve done the 400ml test and its not dropped off yet ..go for it , wipe the mind for a few hours get a smile 

just go grumpy when you get home 

amazing the experts are the eX the unkown   and spert   a drip under pressure     theres a lot of it around

though they are good at taking your cash 

Pete

[Badwolf]

Thanks Pete.  Your advice is priceless. Will spend an hour trying to fit the headlight relays that I got on Doug's recommendation and mentioned on another thread earlier today.  As for the spring, I was worried, not about doing the job, but the way things are going, breaking a stud with no chance of getting replacements before the weekend.

[Pete Lewis]

Work on the basis  its been ok for a  while and you being unknowingly happy, 

We have all uncovered an Oops or yikes moments , at least you now whats under the tin cover

Its not going to break and put you in a ditch, well of it does I know nuffing .ex directory etc.

Pete

 

[Badwolf]

Ok thanks. Just as a final extra, until I do the repair, looking at the metal access cover above the spring, I can see insulation on the inside of the car and only one self taper has actually been screwed in correctly.  What is more worrying is that this garage put the spring in wrong and then gave the car an MOT. Beyond belief, but links with the other thread about poor quality MOT stations. Sadly this MOT station gave the car her first MOT after I bought her and had MOT'd her all the time she was on the road. As mentioned, the first one after she was recommissioned. They have also looked after all my moderns for the past 30 odd years.

[Mjit]

I agree with everyone else on that being the Lower Mounting Box Plate (149189) being fitted incorectly, under rather than above the bottom srping leaf.  Experience makes me think there could be more suprises in store when you take it appart though.

1. If everything else is correct assembling the spring that way will tend to crush the Spacer Tube (149190) that the bolt through the mounting box goes through, making it impossible to fit the bolt (T-shirt owned).
2. If the spring's assembled that way and the tube ISN'T crushed it suggests centreing 'lug' (that cruches the spacer tube) is missing from the bottom leaf...

It's hard to tell from the second photo but is the thing sticking out the side of the mounting block?  It SHOULD be a bolt and doesn't look like the head end so SHOULD be the threaded end past the nulock nut.  That bolt should also be passing straight through the lower mounting block.  Maybe it's the photo/angle/etc but to doesn't look threaded and seems to be pointing down slightly, not perpendicular to the mounting block.

The one thing I WOULDN'T worry about is the different amounts of stud thread showing.  You seem to spend for ever screwing the studs in, start to wonder if you can go too far, get worried/bored and stop.  Or the right-hand studs could be fitted upside down - again not an issue, there's more than enough thread on either end for a safe fit, just more on what should be the diff. end.

[NonMember]

7 minutes ago, Mjit said:

It's hard to tell from the second photo but is the thing sticking out the side of the mounting block? 

I think that's a random reflection, not an actual "thing".

8 minutes ago, Mjit said:

there's more than enough thread on either end for a safe fit, just more on what should be the diff. end.

I'm fairly sure the studs are supposed to fit with the shorter thread into the diff, so they stop there, then the nuts go down the long thread as far as they need to. In fact the original WSM I had to hand (which is for Vitesse / GT6, so not swinger) explicitly states "shorter thread leading" when refitting the studs.

[Badwolf]

Thank Mjit. I will keep you all posted on what I find when I strip it down on the next wet day after this coming weekend. What turns up may help others who have fallen foul of 'The Professionals'.

[Waynebaby]

As the spring is going to come out again and is new, you might want to consider re-fitting it with a 1/2" lowering block on top of the diff. From my experience a new springs seem to leave the wheels tipped out at the top (I can never remember if that is +ve or -ve camber!). Just to counter something Mjit said about the studs, I have managed to crack a diff casing before now by overenthusiastic tightening of a stud, so when the spring is off have a close look at the metal around the threaded holes in the diff just to make sure someone at the garage hasn't made the same mistake.

Wayne