Andy D Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 Hi, I purchased a swing spring conversion kit for my MK3 spitfire from James Paddock. As many people mentioned that the springs can sit a bit high I also purchased a 1/2 inch lowering block. Having fitted the kit I checked the rear camber after a good shake down run, I also loosened spring eye bolts with the car on the ground to ensure they were not holding the car up. The car sits at +2.5 deg on both sides. I estimate without the block it would be at + 4.5 deg. Two weeks latter it has not shifted even a mm lower after dropping 5mm in the shake down run. So I checked spring weight at the wheels, the swing spring is listed at 119 lbf/inch at the wheel. Using my body weight as its fairly easy to position myself over or just behind the spring in the boot, I calculated the new springs weight to be approx 220 lbf/inch. Or approximately twice what it should be. Even if my estimate is a bit off its much harder. I contacted James Paddock regarding this and was told it will settle, but you can buy a 1" block to lower it ( why would I need to if its going to settle) even if this is true which, I don't believe as the spring weight is amost 2x what it should be, it must be dangerous to fit a spring with +4.5 deg camber on the back of a Spitfire. I suggested they should stop selling this spring or include the necessary lowering parts to make it safe. This was completely ignored and they are no longer replying to my messages. I have ordered the extra 1" lowering parts and longer studs at a cost of a further £50 as I need this car working for a road tour of Scotland. However I am now concerned that the springs front-back balance will also be compromised as it has standard springs on the front. It seems if I keep the really hard rear spring ,I probably need harder front springs to maintain front rear balance. I already have GAZ adjustable damping and ride height shocks. Can anyone advise on this? I am running out of time as our trip is at the end of April, the roads will be quite challenging and the group drives fairly hard, so I want to be sure the car is not going to do anything unpredictable. Regards, Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 one thing: as I understand it lbf/inch at the wheel is the weight needed, with the spring clamped rigidly in the middle, to cause an inch of deflection on one side only. This value is doubled if you want to place the spring on flat ground and put weight in the middle of it to give the same inch of movement..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 I have had issues with new rear springs. One sagged horrendously in a single weekend (OK, it was best part of 800 miles and very rough roads up to Scotland and back from the South coast) but years ago I fitted a new spring to the rear of my herald. With a 1" block. And it sat high UNTIL I loaded the boot up with 100KG or so (bags of sand) and had to drive home over some undulating roads etc and some speed bumps. The weight and motion settled the spring nicely in under an hour. So that may work for you. Other issues.... are the rear trunnions fee to move (Presume that was checked when the spring was changed) and that the correct mounting box was supplied etc allowing the spring to pivot in the centre. The swing-spring is a stiff spring, but the pivot makes it wok like a softer spring. And you fitted the matching front ARB...(not relevant to the camber but important) As an aside, if that works or not, do not forget to reset the rear wheel alignment. If that is wrong it can be unpleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 yes if the rear now has some extra Toe in it will raise the car and increase the camber when rolling , simple test is reverse it does this change the stance ?? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy D Posted March 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 2 hours ago, johny said: one thing: as I understand it lbf/inch at the wheel is the weight needed, with the spring clamped rigidly in the middle, to cause an inch of deflection on one side only. This value is doubled if you want to place the spring on flat ground and put weight in the middle of it to give the same inch of movement..... I have already halved the rate on the basis that the weight was shared between both wheels. The car has been driven both forwards and backwards, I did not see any change in stance. Although for obvious reasons alot more forward than backwards. I will recheck again after reversing. I will try a heavy load in the boot to see if it loosens up. Rear trunions are free to move. However I weigh 79Kg and when I did the test it only move 0.4" / 10mm so I am not sure 100Kg will do it. It was a full conversion kit, so new spring pivot box, pivot and new thicker front antiroll bar, new spring with new spring eye bushes. I also replaced drop links at the same time. Many thanks for ideas Regards, Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 its not because some previous has fitted the long drive shafts ??? that would give more negative /--\ is the kit really compatible with a fixed spring , a std swinger is longer eye to eye. this gives more positive \--/ I fitted a canley kit to my vitesse and ran into all sorts of problems .. with no ride and crazy camber ..........it soon came off. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 Andy if you want to change it back to the original spring happy to help.... I still have the original spring on my Herald and its ok, just need to remember to brake before the corner and not once you are in it..... Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6M Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 i cant see shorter shafts mek,n a dff, as the vl,s should move t,suit spring me own car, the car sat high for nearly a year. it,ll settle, but it,ll tek time. butt, try it wid 2 folk an some stuff int boot, see what thats like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 I think its a case of leverage with the drive shafts, the further out the wheel the more force (ft.lbs) applied to the spring so the lower the car will sit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 I've had a swingspring on my mk2 for 30 years and it sits perfectly. It is exactly the same as an early mk4 (before they lengthened the half shafts). I don't have a lowering block so if the spring is correct it should sit fine after settling in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomL Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Andy, can you post a photo of the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy D Posted March 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 Fill the boot with bags of sand or gravel or similar and go for a long and hopefully undulating drive. that will soon settle out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6M Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 thats nowt, sit init, drive it, then check wid weight still init extra Person t,check while 2 still init, it,ll be alot diff im sure. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6M Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 minute ago, thescrapman said: Fill the boot with bags of sand or gravel or similar and go for a long and hopefully undulating drive. that will soon settle out Better still ga roond t,Cols Emporium, an load up wid allsorts of essential goodies He got for our cars !!! M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 20, 2019 Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 hour ago, thescrapman said: Fill the boot with bags of sand or gravel or similar and go for a long and hopefully undulating drive. that will soon settle out indeed. In fact, pop down to wickes/B+Q, load up, then a few days later return it all..... Got any hump-backed bridges local? they will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy D Posted March 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2019 Well I could do with some gravel to patch to road at the back of our house. So it looks like a trip to a building supplier is in order. Followed by a bit of a blast round the back lanes. I have also ordered the 1" lowering block so if it doesnt drop with the gravel I will fit that. I seem to have caught a cold so it might be a while befor I am up to disasembling the rear suspension again. Once lowered I will see how it handles. Thanks, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted April 6, 2019 Report Share Posted April 6, 2019 Hi In the 80`s my wife owned and drove our Vitesse as her "daily". Every winter I would put a Large bag of sand in the boot, it had the effect of making the apparent tyre contact footprint larger, and thereby (one assumes) some increased adhesion in the more "in-clement" winter weather. Fast Forward to present the 13/60 currently under major restoration (body off) has the aforementioned "swing" axle, Pictures given to me by the previous owner show a largely level position ref the Ground?. Without any lowering block fitted?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 6, 2019 Report Share Posted April 6, 2019 theres no doubt these springs vary, from all the differing posts about ride heights experience. Pete youre lucky on my vit6 i was unlucky any load or passenger rode on the internal bump stops in the shockers top can. 10 deg negative was a normal awful thing it soon got replaced removing the bumps just made it lower and more negative Looked hairy but zero ride quality Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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