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The embarrassing Herald restoration thread - making progress


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Never thought of screwing the wood into place; I was intending to jam it in behind so that's another excellent suggestion. I can do that through the seatbelt mounting hole and some of the trim clip holes. I'm just not sure about the amount of force required - theory is one thing, but reality? - so am wary of bending or breaking anything, hence I was dubious about using the thin-looking brackets on the b-post that the window pillars bolt to, they look like they'd bend too easily. I just need to go out now and find some suitable wood; the downside of having a wood burning stove is that it's just too easy to feed it all the good, solid wood that's lying about...

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1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

i did say be brave    

Pete

Be brave, but not bl**dy stupid...

I've put two blocks of wood behind each b post and screwed them in place...then attached a ratchet strap to both. I think the ratchet is too lightweight, but it certainly pulled the wings inwards; just not enough to keep them in place.

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The door bottoms have dropped nicely into line, in fact there's a danger of over-improving things and pulling the passenger side in too far... but I couldn't physically tighten the straps any further using the built-in ratchet. SO: I took a rubber mallet and used the wooden handle of that to twist the straps together and so pull the wings in further. Same problem: lot of torque needed but not much inward progress. I have heavier straps coming from a friend mid-week. In the meantime - do you know what happens if you let go of the hammer handle? Yes, it unwinds at very high speed then flies off into the air.

All I could do was cover my head, cringe, and wait... thankfully it landed on the empty floor and neither on me nor the GT6 beside me.

I tried again with the ratchets on the driver's side only to address that spread, and the other end of the strap round the lift... all it did was to pull the car across the floor.

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The gaps are closing nicely but springing out again once pressure is released. Still, I have the theory now so all that remains is to wait for the heavier straps to appear, and then see what I can bend / break / distort beyond repair.

 

 

 

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long time ago but reckon we pulled in 1.5" to see off a 1/2" spread   

creak groan  bang crunch , but youres should be easy as there is no rear deck to bulge up as you pull ???

must be harder on a Coupe than a CV with a deeper deck panel to stiffen things 

pete

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The bonnet is interesting; once clipped to the bonnet hooks it sits up in the centre... but that's for the future. I've left things as they are until the heavier ratchets get here. Even the long side trim on the rear wing has popped off... in the meantime I've other little jobs to do, such as the rear wheelarch trims and the lettering on the rear hatch.

DSCF9005.jpg.7f85ad710840fa36f99b88b6ae1691a5.jpg  hatch.jpg.fb51f1fdad6dd2e91ddd8a9d45dbeb12.jpg

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Ok back to the tub spread. My little set of trailer ties being insubstantial, I borrowed a huge set of ratchets. This certainly had an effect, it pulled the spot weld off the top of the b-post on the passenger side, where the rear wing overlaps with the B-post. Thankfully I was able to hammer it back into place and the rear trims will cover it. The passenger side is now quite presentable and the door actually latches, so I'll call that side a success - the photo shows how far the top of the wing bends in under tension before springing back out when released.

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The other side has proved more of a problem. In order to only bend one wing I've slanted the ratchets at an angle so as to pull on the top of the driver's side but the bottom of the passenger side. This pulls the wing in, okay, but then causes a problem at the top of the wing and the door shut.

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When the bottom of the wing is in place with the lower part of the door skin, the door is sitting too far in towards the B post and the gap has moved from the outside bottom to the inside top - again, think diagonal. When I close the door against the b-post it's now hitting the windscreen frame at the A-post, almost as if the whole door has been tilted at an angle. I'm debating shimming the door back out at the hinges, if that's feasible. When I pull the wings together the gap at the top of the door becomes quite alarming - here it is bent back in from 48" to 46.5", which is where I want it. in this photo below the bottom of the skin is correct to the rear wing, so it's quite an angle. As the wings bend in, you can see the floors flex, and the holes for the seatbelt anchors on the gearbox tunnel actually drop by about an inch.

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I'm going to allow it to sit for a time under tension, then release - which it does with quite a bang. Hopefully this will have stretched it back into place sufficiently for me to say it's done. I still don't like that passenger door gap - it's just an 1/8 inch out, but is annoying me - I'll phone a couple of mates later and see if they're able to call over later in the week and do the donkey work for me while I do the fine adjustment - sliding and gapping a rear tub in three dimensions is not an easy job for one.

 

 

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I've given up on the tub spread until I can find a method of keeping the passenger side steady whilst only bending the driver's side, so have started on the bonnet. I bent one of the bonnet adjustment bars - thankfully off the car - whilst freeing it up with a spanner so had to blast and repaint another. The bonnet is fitted, but not adjusting as far back as it should and there's a large gap at both scuttle and doors. The adjuster has now been repainted and fitted, but the bonnet still will not play ball.

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There is one clear problem; the wheelarches are too far back and are hitting off the bulkhead. I think a judicious reshaping, maybe even trimming, of the rear edge is in order. The area of the centre seam sits further back than the rest and if that is bent inwards - sorry, reshaped - then I may have enough backwards movement. Half an inch will do and a good hammer and dolly will give me the required room, hopefully with no damage to the paintwork that can't be hidden by a fresh coat and the rubber seals that go over this bit. i think it may be the passenger side only, but I'll have a bit of trial and error first.

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Here's an interesting development - the bonnet sits high in the middle, and lifts up before it moves back so that I cannot get a proper line - I adjust it, it moves forward, I move it back, it moves forward again... so in order to get some further freedom of movement, I undid both stays and the counter springs. The bonnet immediately slid into place with no problems and if the wheel arches are adjusted, looks to be as good a gap as there's ever been, subject to raising the bonnet half an inch and slight adjustment of the curves backwards into the contour of the door.

A0B3889E-ACC4-45EC-88B2-005C34A986BE_1_105_c.jpg.db57258cf424139d330a14d69492ff64.jpg

Why is the counter-spring fighting against the bonnet fitting? I need to work out why, so that when I come to refit it, I don't end up with the bonnet being pulled forward again. It's fitted correctly, as far as I can see, but I know there are different springs for model and year, so will have to confirm that I'm using the correct versions. Still, it's a big step forward.

 

 

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Well, that was a hard morning's graft, but I think I've made progress. The entire front end of the Herald was removed - not an easy job on my own - and the bonnet turned upside down for a judicious reshaping of the rear end of the wheel arches where they were hitting the bulkhead before the gaps were correct. This seems to have had the desired effect and along with some careful adjustment of the mountings has led to the best panel gap I've managed so far.

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The curve at the top of the bonnet, just above the silver trim strip, was badly damaged when the car was found and it was reshaped by a bodyworker but sadly not on the car, so it's a slightly different profile to the door edge. I don't think I'll worry too much. If you look at it from the right angle, you don't see it at all.

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One thing that I do see, and it's glaringly obvious to me - being me - is that the bonnet bends upwards on the top panel; you can just see here that the N/S screenwash nozzle has all but disappeared. The bonnet did this on both sides originally, so I seem to have cured one side; all I need to do is remember the technique and do the same on the other side. I don't yet have the bonnet stay-bars fitted, nor the counter-balance springs, which were distorting the bonnet the last time they were fitted, but as I'm on a high this morning, I'll leave things as they are for now. The Herald is now looking ready for front valance, grille, mirrors and overriders again. If only I could finish the engine rebuild and get that fitted... which should have been completed whilst the bonnet was off, otherwise it's a lot of delicate work with a hoist and a huge sigh of relief when it goes into place without removing a lot of paint first.

49E8EA9E-8659-44A5-92C9-AD26FB806C78_1_105_c.jpg.3e9a5a2853bdaf269dca3799405ede98.jpg

 

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32 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Well, that was a hard morning's graft, but I think I've made progress. The entire front end of the Herald was removed - not an easy job on my own - and the bonnet turned upside down for a judicious reshaping of the rear end of the wheel arches where they were hitting the bulkhead before the gaps were correct. This seems to have had the desired effect and along with some careful adjustment of the mountings has led to the best panel gap I've managed so far.

4A996DBA-0F24-47C5-9B04-8CF13F6F4782_1_105_c.jpg.db502fe39b33ea1eaed4fe59d20972dd.jpg

The curve at the top of the bonnet, just above the silver trim strip, was badly damaged when the car was found and it was reshaped by a bodyworker but sadly not on the car, so it's a slightly different profile to the door edge. I don't think I'll worry too much. If you look at it from the right angle, you don't see it at all.

61260821-EA30-47EE-A3F1-75CB199DE69B_1_105_c.jpg.04b06691351553ef72c8de4703c9c682.jpg

One thing that I do see, and it's glaringly obvious to me - being me - is that the bonnet bends upwards on the top panel; you can just see here that the N/S screenwash nozzle has all but disappeared. The bonnet did this on both sides originally, so I seem to have cured one side; all I need to do is remember the technique and do the same on the other side. I don't yet have the bonnet stay-bars fitted, nor the counter-balance springs, which were distorting the bonnet the last time they were fitted, but as I'm on a high this morning, I'll leave things as they are for now. The Herald is now looking ready for front valance, grille, mirrors and overriders again. If only I could finish the engine rebuild and get that fitted... which should have been completed whilst the bonnet was off, otherwise it's a lot of delicate work with a hoist and a huge sigh of relief when it goes into place without removing a lot of paint first.

49E8EA9E-8659-44A5-92C9-AD26FB806C78_1_105_c.jpg.3e9a5a2853bdaf269dca3799405ede98.jpg

 

Nice gaps 

Paul 

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As there's nothing I can do with the white Estate until I get the tub sag sorted, I've gone back to the red 1200 convertible and with a superhuman effort have ended up with this:

DSCF9419.jpg.adcb4fbee565c77cda8c0aba45d8a794.jpg

All new outriggers bar the two boot extensions; the suspension turrets have been blasted and primed. Even the two front overrider brackets are new. If the rain had stopped during the week it would have gone off to the paint shop, but the sprayer didn't want to collect it on a flatbed and have it wet before finishing the primer work and painting. This will be a rolling chassis in record time; the wheels are at the industrial sandblaster who can blast them in a fraction of the time it would take me and once painted in road-wheel white they'll get new tyres. After that we'll be back to making brake pipes and trying to remember where I left the engine, gearbox and propshaft. Down in the back corner behind you can just about see two halfshafts, the steering column, the sills, the doors and under that blanket, the hard top. The new rear valance is against the pillar to the right, beside the roll of soundproofing felt, and it's been freshly pressed as the metal edges are like knives. I've got the cuts to prove it.

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heated garage and hoist some ones got luxury in that northern climate hence the hardtop I suppose. Put the pipes in now before you put the body on, I did it the other way what a bugger that was as there's not a lot of finger room between the footwells and the chassis backbone. 

Chassis looks good, wish I'd replaced the rear outriggers when I refurbed mine, did the rest. Colin its been, worth waiting for! 

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Absolute luxury, Peter... neither the knees or the back appreciate lying on a cold concrete floor any more... 

I've started on the Herald wheels - this is a set of 4 x 4.5J steels that I bought at Stafford for £40, but they were originally silver so had to be blasted. My own cabinet made no impression at all, so off they went to the professional shot blaster, who had an awful time removing the old finish which he reckons was some kind of powder coat. It took hours but rather him than me.

Back home in bare metal, they got an initial coat of red lead oxide followed by grey primer:

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I made the mistake of trying grey Stonechip on two; my advice is: don't. The finish was terrible, very grainy, and although I wanted to use up old paint this was the wrong stuff. 

The topcoat is a pair of cans I've been saving since the mid-1990s - I don't think Bill sells them any more, but I was keeping them for the right car so here they are in their (almost) final coat:

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Sides and rear still to do but the colour is very bright, not far off code 19 Triumph White and a slight shade lighter than the Hammerite Magnolia I used on the GT6 wheels. These will have no other adornment than the hub cap - no trim embellishers - so I want them to look right. Tomorrow or Tuesday will see the tyres fitted.

 

 

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  • Colin Lindsay changed the title to The embarrassing Herald 1200 restoration thread - the man who makes holes

I sent a few parts off recently, to that nice man who makes holes - the shotblaster.

I had a lovely pair of engine valences, not a trace of corrosion, and then he sends them back to me with a few weight-saving mods. Oops! where did THAT come from?

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The front valence is also slightly perforated:

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As I don't want to be driving a 1200 teabag I'm debating using one of the spare valences I have lying about, the only problem being that they're both fibreglass. Full of holes, and cracks, and splits... so: first step is to trial fit one and attach the metal strengthening brackets that no-one supplies any more:

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Once in place I bonded them to the fibreglass and clamped them overnight, then added a few layers of fibreglass around the base to strengthen the hold. After that it was fill, and sand, and generally tidy up, and they've ended up like this:

 9F9E83DF-3B36-4952-8C11-864C7B987D41_1_105_c.jpg.5a3378aa65d9c9c4c5228c86898e0a2b.jpg 554A9533-F592-4CEA-B488-AE206CB87B8A_1_105_c.jpg.74896f2f218ef415a438a3da15182a69.jpg

That's actually quite good. I'm not intending to fit rubber bumpers so all of the mounting strip holes have now gone, as well as the huge unsightly coach bolts that held the side brackets on. Those brackets will be bonded on, too, once I get the position confirmed. I've been told to get 2K High-Solid Filler Primer to finish the preparatory work, but I'm still in two minds about using fibreglass at all. I should really go for a replacement metal valence - personal choice; this is to be a driving car, for fun runs and the like, but I still think I prefer metal. I think, as usual, I'm talking myself into it as I type...

 

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Colin, the bottom the engine valance on my Herald was exactly the same when I started poking around.

Triumph built yet another perfect rust trap with that design, mine was full of impacted mud and crud and had rotted from the inside out.

Given the valances propensity to rust, I think a fibreglass one is a great idea!

Karl

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  • Colin Lindsay changed the title to The embarrassing Herald 1200 restoration thread - pressed, but not impressed!

Well, I decided to dip into the piggy bank and buy a metal valence rather than go fibreglass; the new one has arrived, but on close inspection it seems to have been made late on a Friday.

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Definitely better than the frilly original, but most surprising thing was that it is covered in grease... swimming in the stuff. It also looks like the overrider apertures on the front were hand cut with shears, and not very well, either. There are a few false starts and metal tags, on which I sliced my fingers open when taking it out of the box...

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The edges are a bit frilly, too; I'm assuming quality control was on a day off. Would it really have been so difficult to trim off the extra metal and hammer out the dents?

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Okay so I can do it myself but I'm asking: why should I have to? Is it really so much to ask, for something to be done right and sent to a customer with a bit of pride in the finished product, or should I just shut up and be grateful that someone goes to the bother of making these at all? I spent all morning with a Dremel, plus a hammer and dolly, tidying up the edges and straightening things out, so once I work out how to clean the grease off - and what with - it'll be ready for painting. I'm not taking any chances, the two fibreglass valences will be finished too, so that I've got a fallback. That's the entire front end of the car, right back to the B-posts, finished and ready for paint.

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Unfortunately that is often par for the course these days, but at least these panels are available new  for our cars, even if they are a bit rough around the edges.

No doubt if they were better finished they’d be more expensive still.

Best of luck with sorting it out, and I’ll be taking notes as at some point my front valance needs replacing given that it’s a loose cohesion of rust and fibreglass patches.

Karl

 

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with parallel swarf cuts like that it looks as its been trimmed with a nibbler? also bottom left photo of the outer top corner why not trim that and seam weld like the original was!

rather than protecting from corrosion with grease a coat of etch primer. 

I fortunately got a NOS Stanpart Vitesse front valance for the Mk2 here in Aus around 10 years ago and my repaired one went on a friends Mk2, marvellous what turns up on eBay esp as Vitesse's were never sold new in Aus!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, I'm still debating the fitting of the metal valence. I had a trial fitting today on the restored chassis, after fitting the old and very holy valence and making notes of where and how it fits. Looks nice, but some parts are way out. I can't deny that it's solid, but therefore very inflexible, and the bottom brackets are an inch off the metal which won't bend that far without serious damage.

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I'm concerned about the unequal sides to the top fittings; one is almost an inch too long.

4ADB33E4-DD94-4933-9A2C-FFFE7306D547_1_105_c.jpg.ec5ff3af19f835fa9f594e0f40031bb6.jpg

I've tried everything, and thankfully I have another Herald to take reference measurements from, but they're still unequal. This can be clearly seen at the bottom of the grille, where the driver's side is a tight fit, but the passenger side is way out.

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There's no way that can be reshaped except by taking out metal and rewelding, or else entrusting to a good bodyworker at extra expense. I had thought that maybe if the valence was bent outwards at the outer edge then this would twist round into shape, but with both sides set at an equal distance, and matching the gaps on my other 1200, it still looks bad.

The front area round the overriders is too tight to allow them to fit; I have a few pairs of old rusty units which I don't mind getting marked, so tried them as a test, but there's almost half an inch of metal at each side which will need ground back. This is the dilemma; if I cut bits off then I can't return it, but if I return it, is the replacement going to be any better? Once it's painted there's no going back but I don't want to waste time and money having it painted only to find that it never fits properly and spoils the look of the front of the car.

FF39B169-69E0-4F63-A02F-B3A51C47B115_1_105_c.jpg.656e3ca84c1f2b54850c491faf4390eb.jpg  0F28BBBF-F9AE-4B60-B54D-5CE216A59CDA_1_105_c.jpg.511cbce58253f7ff231baab50f025ccc.jpg

Has anyone else bought one of these recently, and how was it?

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  • Colin Lindsay changed the title to The embarrassing Herald restoration thread - making progress

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