The embarrassing Herald restoration thread - now the fiddly bits

[Colin Lindsay]

On 21/11/2022 at 18:36, daverclasper said:

Didn't know you had a Vitesse, or is that what you call the Vit bonneted Herald?

Very nice work on the gauge, love that sort of low cost/more time, resto stuff

Yes, it's the 13/60 with the Vitesse bonnet but I'm cheating and also fitting a Vitesse dashboard hence the need for extra gauges. Maybe I need to find some kind of hybrid name for the car... unofficially it's called 'Bitser' or 'The Thing'... but it's one to experiment on, whereas the other two Heralds are mostly original factory-spec.

For real low cost / penny pinching, I found that the seal from an oil filter is a nice rectangular profile, so if well cleaned and cut to size it can be used as a gauge-to-dashboard gasket. Judging by the texture, it may last longer than the soft and by now gooey originals.

[Wagger]

I put one of those in my Vitesse in 1973. There is only one problem with them. If your generator stops charging, they do consume a small current, unlike an Ammeter, so will discharge the battery, albeit slowly. However, Ammeters back then caused voltage drop and had to be connected in a specific situation.

I use a cheap Cigarette lighter socket with a Green, Amber and Red LED built in. I take remedial action as soon as the green one goes OFF.

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Wagger said:

I put one of those in my Vitesse in 1973. There is only one problem with them. If your generator stops charging, they do consume a small current, unlike an Ammeter, so will discharge the battery, albeit slowly. However, Ammeters back then caused voltage drop and had to be connected in a specific situation.

I use a cheap Cigarette lighter socket with a Green, Amber and Red LED built in. I take remedial action as soon as the green one goes OFF.

I can't remember the way I connected the one I had in the GT6, it was 20 years ago so need to brush up again. 

[Josef]

It’s just a switched white feed and a good earth to the other terminal (plus lighting as appropriate) that the voltmeters need. 

[Colin Lindsay]

14 hours ago, Josef said:

It’s just a switched white feed and a good earth to the other terminal (plus lighting as appropriate) that the voltmeters need. 

I think mine was on the non-powered side of the ignition key, so only worked - or let current through - when the key was turned or the engine was running.

Lighting may be a slight problem; the gauge has no bulb fitting included, and none of my other versions fit. I might have to adapt one, or knock something up.

[Wagger]

I connected mine directly to the switched fuse, so that I could disconnect it if the dynamo failed. There was a light fitting included when these were new, a plug in bayonet fitting similar to that used on some motor cycle instruments.

I remember thinking how odd it was that my elder brother's Austin 10 Cambridge (1938) had ammeter, oil gauge etc and these were 'Missing' from most 1960's cars.

Nowadays I use a current clamp and my backlit LCD meter which shows a 'Minus' sign when the battery is being discharged if I really want to know if all is working. Not when driving it though, just for diagnosis.

[Peter Truman]

Must admit I like the voltmeter on the daughters Mk2 Spit although I only fitted it to balance up the oil pressure gauge fitted in the radio hole/slot. It gives a reassuring glance when starting that all is charging ok and when running esp when all electrics are running, lights elect fans heater, esp when in a traffic jam

I don't have one fitted to the Vitesse, but the Sprint has one as standard equipment.

[Colin Lindsay]

It's time for a gripe. Those of you of a sensitive disposition should run for cover.

Well, there's not much going on in the garage at present. It's cold and I'm bored, and can't seem to get the enthusiasm up to work on anything, bar a lot of gardening and DIY work. Cutting logs certainly gets the body temperature up but once back inside the house the last thing I want to do is spend an evening away from a good fire. There's little else going on at present, no good Club runs that are worth spending 200 miles of petrol on, and even the local 'Vintage Car Shows' are degenerating into collections of Boy Racers and their go-faster bore-boxes. Vintage and Classic Show? REALLY?

  

When someone brings a working, modern builder's van to a show and puts it on display things have certainly gone pear-shaped. I actually thought they'd photographed the supermarket car park instead. All this sort of thing does is make owners of older cars like mine feel marginalised and unwanted, especially in the light of the 'My Scooby has 900000 bhp and you can hear the exhaust three miles away' discussion brigade sort of thing, where they nudge each other and titter at rattly old cars like Triumphs. Yet, it seems static shows of what I consider genuine Classics are a thing of the past and even our own local TSSC AGM last night seemed opposed to any kind of club display at any show, preferring to drive aimlessly for a few hundred miles before hitting the next restaurant twice a month. Yes, I am peed off! I love static shows, burgers, good chat and a chance to take a break from endless driving. It's no longer enjoyable to drive 50 miles, to drive another 150 miles at breakneck speeds up and down little backroads with no idea of where we're going, and then drive 50 or more miles home again.

I took the Herald up to Tescos a while back and managed to get photographed for an enthusiast's Facebook page... Baltic cold but hoods are for wimps...  Going by the background of the photo, it was another one of these 'Vintage shows'... but it was very nice to see the positive comments on the page.

                                                                                      

 

At least it was clean... and they've managed to make it look very solid and presentable, too. This mild weather is one of the reasons I'm reluctant to start any work on the convertible, as it's on the road and could be driving about on any sunny morning, so I don't want to lose that chance of a bit of winter fun.

What little work I've done in the garage has been on the Estate, and that's been precious little. I've started on the roof, so the headlining, which has been loosely held in place by the rods for twenty years, is now being glued in place. As with anything on Heralds, it's so easy to be able to unbolt the parts and work on them at a sensible angle. The headlining should be glued along the outer edges which go under the window rubbers, so I've been using Evostik and then holding the edges in place with a long strip of trim.

                  

It's slightly discoloured over the years but has now got that 'original' look, and cleans up well with Astonish Vinyl Cleaner... but the glue, for some reason, is not holding. I'm using brush-on from the tin, brushing it on, so-called 'instant-grab' stuff, but even if left for over 24 hours, it still unpeels when the trim is unclipped. I know that once the side windows are fitted the rubber seals will help hold it in place, but the more I can do prior to fitting the roof, the easier things should be afterwards.

I'm still refurbishing the instruments, helped immensely by my new toy.

                

This is a Smiths Gauge Tester, made in the 1960s, and was designed for testing gauges in situ to determine if a gauge was faulty, or a sensor, and then replace as necessary. With the correct setting selected on the dial, you connect the instrument to the 'out' or 'earth' terminal of the gauge, then earth the other cable. By turning the dial from 'empty' to 'full' you can see the fuel gauge rise to full, or the temperature gauge rise to hot, and you can even test the bi-metal stabiliser itself and of course the sensors. It works on either stabilised or non-stabilised gauges. It can easily be used for bench-testing and I've been having fun watching the petrol gauges rise to 'full' which I never see in real life any more.

Apart from that, and due to the fact that I do need properly colour-coded wiring for the additional Herald instruments I hope to add, I've also been reclaiming bits of wiring looms, which is quite entertaining in itself. I started off on an old 948 saloon loom, which turned out to be surprisingly clean and new under the outer wrapping.

                                                                       

This one was go good, in fact, that I started to panic that I'd stripped a good useable loom by mistake. Thankfully halfway along I found the reason for its' replacement in the first place; the large brown cable from the dynamo has melted at some point.

                                                                       

Amazingly, that's all the damage there was. The heavy brown cable has shorted out, and melted the cover off itself, but there was absolutely no damage to any other cable. Once I peeled the melted bits off the rest of the cables, they were perfect and certainly reuseable, so into the drawer they all go. 

                                                                         

Even some of the older, dirty-looking cable from the engine bay cleaned up very well with a cloth soaked in petrol. This means I have a reserve of Lucas-coded cabling to draw on, especially as I want the additional gauges to have the correct colour of wiring; handy for fault-finding or just re-attachment if anything is ever removed. We all know what it's like, trying to sort out a PO's botched wiring with odd cables running everywhere and no clue as to what goes where. If only I could locate good veneer for the dashboard it would enable me to start preparing for the replacement.

So: apologies for the earlier gripe, but I am getting peed off with things locally as they presently stand, and am even more peed off with walking into the garage today and finding an amazingly strong smell of petrol, which has nothing to do with my loom cleaning. This is proper gallons-over-the-floor smell. I actually thought someone had broken in and tried to burn the place and sadly can't find out where it is or what it's coming from. Nothing on the floor, no pipe leaks that I can see, and the convertible starts and runs with no drips. I'll be paranoid for a while, no doubt.... and more worried about stray sparks...

[NonMember]

26 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Amazingly, that's all the damage there was.

I had a similar case with my old Dolomite. It was a 1500HL with an 1850 engine, and the main power distribution block fell off the inner wing onto the exhaust manifold. The plastic housing melted, the block shorted to ground, and the main thick brown wire from the starter caught fire. Despite returning to a completely dead car with signs of an under-bonnet thermal incident, the only actual damage was that one brown cable.

[Bordfunker]

Colin, traditional classic car shows are not dead, it can just feel like it.

We're lucky in having Bicester Heritage just down the road from us and they do a quarterly 'Scramble', (it's based on an old RAF Bomber Command airfield).

My loom was in similar condition when I stripped the manky outer wrap off it, and cut out the odd damaged section, having said that I ended replacing most of the connectors.

Karl

[Josef]

How do you test the gauge in the gauge tester though!? Given it is clearly the same sort of gauge the tester is designed to test. 

Really cool bit of kit there 

[Pete Lewis]

ive had one for years  they do come up on £eabay at times   theres one on now for £85+ 

that seems a lot  unless youre testing a good few cars  

can be handy on duff senders and VS problems  but you can change half the car for that sort of money  

smiths instruments gauge tester | eBay

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

16 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

ive had one for years  they do come up on £eabay at times   theres one on now for £85+ 

smiths instruments gauge tester | eBay

Pete

That's an older version, works on 24v as much as 12v. I'm just using mine at present as a bench tester for old gauges, but it's more automobilia than anything else. Just a lovely well-made piece of automotive history.

13 hours ago, Josef said:

How do you test the gauge in the gauge tester though!? Given it is clearly the same sort of gauge the tester is designed to test. 

When you connect it to the system it reads a steady 10v, so tells you the system is ready to check gauges. If THAT fails, well it's like any machine.

[Colin Lindsay]

14 hours ago, Bordfunker said:

Colin, traditional classic car shows are not dead, it can just feel like it.

Karl

Not dead, Karl, just our local area doesn't seem to want a presence at any, any more. Over Covid, when all we had were road runs, it became a habit - now it seems no-one wants to have a stand or display at any local show, so no new membership as no-one knows we exist any more.

[Colin Lindsay]

Well, that's me off the road for a month or four. That smell of petrol? I traced it to the rubber grommet under the boot floor...

                                                                      

So: what's likely to be leaking... I got it!! The short curved pipe that links the tank to the petrol pipe.... no. It seems fine. However... if the petrol is leaking, is there any trace inside the boot?

I pressed the boot carpet.... soaking. All the folding seats, cloths, spare coats, umbrellas etc all soaked. So: I removed the carpet... and:

                                                                        

That's neat four star, literally liquid gold eating my paint and soundprooofing. So: if it's THERE.... where else can it be?

  

That's good Superplus Unleaded, E5. Cleaned it all out, and it started to refill again surprisingly quickly. The drip was easy to trace now. It's the tank, it's sprung a leak around the lower seam. Ethanol related? Shouldn't be that quickly, surely? I've no idea what bodges the PO did in that area, other than knowing he removed the drain plug a few years back and brazed a patch into it. Going by the bubbling on the paint, this is the source of the leak. Of course the flaming tank is still 3/4 full, and I've nowhere to put the fuel... but I've managed to drain some out so that it's below the leak when the tank is placed on its' side.

                           

So: I reckon that tank is banjaxed, but my spare has a pinhole in the filler neck. I don't think I've got a third, but will check. I think my only course of action, given the chance of a replacement tank, is my local branch of Fuel-Tank Renu. They did an excellent job on my Estate tank, but that was many years ago, and in any case I'm not holding out for a quick repair. They've had a Herald radiator of mine since last February, as I made the mistake of telling them that I wasn't in any hurry... but I'll call over on Monday.

Herald is now officially off the road, as if I'm waiting on a tank, I'll strip down the front end and work on the dashboard area, plus the screen surround, plus the doors, plus the rep[lacement rear spring...

[Chris A]

Once you've recovered as much petrol as you can from the wheel well at least drying it out is straight forward 

Sorry, couldn't find a Herald brand.

You'll get there in the end 

[Pete Lewis]

who said  Happy Christmas  ??????????  

Pete

[Bordfunker]

That could have been very nasty, one stray spark!

Thank goodness you found it.

Karl

[PeteH]

If you want to keep going?, F-G the pinole in the other tank neck?, Get`s you out of bother in the short term?.

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

21 minutes ago, PeteH said:

If you want to keep going?, F-G the pinole in the other tank neck?, Get`s you out of bother in the short term?.

Pete

I weighed up the options and decided: get started. I'll only have to start anyway and the quicker the work is commenced the quicker it'll be finished. Half the dashboard is out already, I made the mistake of sitting in the driver's seat earlier with a screwdriver. Everything is stinking of fuel, this cold still air is keeping it here. I'm away for the weekend, steak and beer tomorrow night - woohoo! - so Monday morning will see a more dedicated approach than I've had recently. I haven't even found veneer for the dashboard yet, and need to visit my intended sprayer before Christmas with a small present as a gentle reminder.

I see the currently available remade tanks - if they are indeed still available - have no drain, and no bracket for the reserve lever. Plus they're all the small versions. That's no big deal, it's rare one of our local megatrips empties the tank, but I'd rather keep the larger one. IF FTR do it it'll at least be ethanol-proofed inside.

[steveo]

Always welded petrol tanks on cars & bikes with a good mig, just drained the tanks & left them outside for 24 hours with no cap & sender unit before welding.

Last one I done was out of a Rickman Ranger kit car that used the tank from an Escort estate, loads of saloon tanks around but nothing for the estate, thing had sat in a field for 5 years & had about 20 pin holes in it, after welding/grinding/painting it looked like new.

Cheers, Steve.

[Peter Truman]

 Have an original new Herald small fuel tank picked up locally here in Melbourne looks the same as UK ones but often wondered if it was a local CKD manufactured one by AMI to meet local content rules I know CKD Herald’s used Aus made radiators so why not fuel tanks?

Thefuel tank has never been used and is in great condition.

[Pete Lewis]

TD fitchetts show the herald tank at  £240  in the Courier advert       if thats an incentive to repair the orig.

you wont find it on the fitchett website as they are selective about what the club are offered to load on  the TDF site ( its operated by the club for them) 

having bought one years ago they are the smal tank less drain spout and reserve lever bracket 

Pete

[Peter Truman]

My local supply new small tank ie CKD unit has both the drain and reserve lever/bracket but I’ve converted the drain to be the tank outlet to ensure a positive suction to the electric pump located in the boot

[Colin Lindsay]

On 10/12/2022 at 10:27, Pete Lewis said:

TD fitchetts show the herald tank at  £240  in the Courier advert       if thats an incentive to repair the orig.

you wont find it on the fitchett website as they are selective about what the club are offered to load on  the TDF site ( its operated by the club for them) 

having bought one years ago they are the smal tank less drain spout and reserve lever bracket 

Pete

Yes, couldn't find one so was wondering! The Club site is as usual worse than useless, I search for 'fuel tank' and get interior carpets, but no tanks listed at all.

I'll know by Wednesday if mine is worth repairing, but it is the bigger version for the late 13/60s. I have a good 1200 version, for my 1200 convertible, and two larger late Herald versions both now in need of repair. (I also have an estate tank but let's not go there!) If the repairs - and this is splitting the welds, treating the damage, rewelding, coating the inside and painting in black rust-proof paint - proves to be cost-effective I'll go for that but it will take months due to their ongoing work load. If second-hand comes up, then happy days. Loss of drain doesn't worry me, but the tank that has just leaked had had the drain removed by a PO, and a brazed repair in place. I'm wondering why it started to leak now?