ludwig113 Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Hi all, I seem to remember talk of using austin princess calipers with capri vented disc's ??? with a gt6 mk3 Is this right and are there any part numbers to look out for? many thanks paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-UPGRADED-AUSTIN-PRINCESS-4-POT-BRAKE-CALIPERS-PAD-KIT-ESCORT-CAPRI-TRIUMPH/153461286829?fits=Car+Make%3AAustin|Model%3APrincess&hash=item23bb0167ad:g:GoYAAOSwXUNcvuNe I've found a link to a set of calipers that will allegedly fit all - Ford, Austin and Triumph, although I had thought that there were differences in the mountings with Fords at least - and if you look down the listing he has given the dimensions. He has three or four sets for sale, all at varying prices, but claims they have a pre-fitted spacer block that has to be removed if they're to be used on the Princess; this would indicate that they've been spaced for vented discs already. There are second hand Austin originals for £100 also listed by another seller. This link is quite an interesting article, although he's fitting them to a Marina rather than a Triumph: http://www.cjw-consulting.co.uk/4pots/4pots.htm Companies like Willwood do a complete kit for the GT6 but only for single discs. Are you intending to do a lot of speed? I've heard that there's only a marginal improvement over the originals, but have never tried them myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludwig113 Posted January 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-UPGRADED-AUSTIN-PRINCESS-4-POT-BRAKE-CALIPERS-PAD-KIT-ESCORT-CAPRI-TRIUMPH/153461286829?fits=Car+Make%3AAustin|Model%3APrincess&hash=item23bb0167ad:g:GoYAAOSwXUNcvuNe I've found a link to a set of calipers that will allegedly fit all - Ford, Austin and Triumph, although I had thought that there were differences in the mountings with Fords at least - and if you look down the listing he has given the dimensions. He has three or four sets for sale, all at varying prices, but claims they have a pre-fitted spacer block that has to be removed if they're to be used on the Princess; this would indicate that they've been spaced for vented discs already. There are second hand Austin originals for £100 also listed by another seller. This link is quite an interesting article, although he's fitting them to a Marina rather than a Triumph: http://www.cjw-consulting.co.uk/4pots/4pots.htm Companies like Willwood do a complete kit for the GT6 but only for single discs. Are you intending to do a lot of speed? I've heard that there's only a marginal improvement over the originals, but have never tried them myself. That was the link i was looking at colin, andy cook has just replied to my question on facebook and it seems that a bit of work will still need to be done to both the calipers and disk before fitting. i'm not thinking of alot of speed but i will be getting recon calipers as mine are knackered(not worth the time and money to sort them) so thought about the upgrade. I'll probably just stick with the standard setup and drilled disks(which i already have) cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 27 minutes ago, ludwig113 said: That was the link i was looking at colin, andy cook has just replied to my question on facebook and it seems that a bit of work will still need to be done to both the calipers and disk before fitting. i'm not thinking of alot of speed but i will be getting recon calipers as mine are knackered(not worth the time and money to sort them) so thought about the upgrade. I'll probably just stick with the standard setup and drilled disks(which i already have) cheers Recommend getting yours reconditioned rather than buying new callipers..... The princess conversion is a really easy way for spitfire/herald owners to fit bigger brakes. Simply fit GT6 discs and teh princess callipers. Job done (not vented, but simple) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Princess calipers fit the lug spacing of the Herald/Spit vertical link, but not the Vitesse/GT6. Princess calipers are very heavy and need a link pipe adding as they are designed for true dual circuit systems. The pad area is no bigger than the Girling type 16 already fitted to the Vit/GT6. They need spacing for use with vented discs. IMO the standard iron Princess calipers offer no worthwhile advantage of the type 16. HiSpec used to offer an alloy copy of the Princess caliper, including a version for vented discs (and possibly a version with wider lug spacing) which might tip the balance. However, they are no longer listing any of these on the website so maybe NLA. The route I took was to recondition my original 16P calipers with new seals and stainless steel pistons. I also spaced them for use with Capri 2.8 discs. With Mintex 1144 pads these are working really well, though haven't been properly (dry track day!) fade tested yet. I suggest avoiding the new repro type 16 calipers as most if not all seem to give problems with excessive pad return causing a really long pedal. We wasted many hours trying to sort a pair out and everyone I know who has tried them has had similar problems. Nick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Been thinking about spitfire/herald brakes. The ford chaps seem to use the princess callipers to replace their escort etc M16 callipers. So are interchangeable? If that is the case will an M16 calliper from an escort work on a spit/herald upright with a std GT6 brake disc? It will certainly bolt to the upright.... but I have a suspicion there may be an issue somewhere. Only because it has not been done, or at least well documented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Clark Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 +1 for Nick's comments on Princess and Type 16 calipers. I'm using the standard Type 16 with Mintex 1144 pads and standard solid GT6/Vitesse discs on my 2.5 litre GT6. Seems adequate for road use but would probably want vented discs if I ever wanted to do track days . To Clive's point, Ford used a slightly different version of the Type 16, with 3.5" spacing of the mounting bolts, not 3.75" as used by Triumph. Not sure if this was true of all or just some Ford applications. Princess calipers have 3.5" spacing, so fit relevant Fords but not GT6. Because of the bolt spacing, Princess calipers will fit in place of Type 14 on Spitfires, with the aforementioned pipework taken care of. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Nigel Clark said: +1 for Nick's comments on Princess and Type 16 calipers. I'm using the standard Type 16 with Mintex 1144 pads and standard solid GT6/Vitesse discs on my 2.5 litre GT6. Seems adequate for road use but would probably want vented discs if I ever wanted to do track days . To Clive's point, Ford used a slightly different version of the Type 16, with 3.5" spacing of the mounting bolts, not 3.75" as used by Triumph. Not sure if this was true of all or just some Ford applications. Princess calipers have 3.5" spacing, so fit relevant Fords but not GT6. Because of the bolt spacing, Princess calipers will fit in place of Type 14 on Spitfires, with the aforementioned pipework taken care of. Nigel Nigel, my last post was a "thinking out loud" jobbie. The ford caliper on a spit/herald upright will indeed bolt up. A GT6 disc will bolt to a spit/herald hub. Will they work together? Bear in mind a princess caliper WILL work with a GT6 disc on a spit/herald upright, as I had that on a car I owned. And the M16 should be more that adequate for a fast spitfire/herald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Clark Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Hi Clive, Yes, apparently simple modifications get complicated. Bolting Princess calipers to the front of any small chassis Triumph is no doubt possible. But once again, the devil is in the detail! Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Nigel Clark said: +1 for Nick's comments on Princess and Type 16 calipers. I'm using the standard Type 16 with Mintex 1144 pads and standard solid GT6/Vitesse discs on my 2.5 litre GT6. Seems adequate for road use but would probably want vented discs if I ever wanted to do track days . To Clive's point, Ford used a slightly different version of the Type 16, with 3.5" spacing of the mounting bolts, not 3.75" as used by Triumph. Not sure if this was true of all or just some Ford applications. Princess calipers have 3.5" spacing, so fit relevant Fords but not GT6. Because of the bolt spacing, Princess calipers will fit in place of Type 14 on Spitfires, with the aforementioned pipework taken care of. Nigel Suggests that the Ford M16 might fit direct to the Herald/Spit vertical link..... don’t know about offset thought. Worth noting that there is also a vented-disc-ready version as used on the Capri 2.8 and Granada. We found the M1144 pads to be a little fade-prone with solid discs. We overcame that with Ferodo DS2500 pads which seemed fade proof and long lasting for road use, even in the Alps. However, less cold bite than the Mintex and we pretty much destroyed a set the first time we did a track day in the dry..... hence the move to vented discs. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Ive had Princesses on Capri venteds on my race Vitesse for years. Completely abolished braked fade. But I'm convinced that its the vented that are the important factor, plus Mintex 1155s. All, I think as mentioned above, so just +1 from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigolf Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Hi all. Seeing this post reminds me that I'm going to be replacing the pads in my Vit soon. I've read good things about Mintex 1144 pads. With so much fake rubbish around, I'm wary of buying 'copies' of the genuine article - particularly as it's safety critical ! Can someone give me the exact product code please, so that I can compare prices and suppliers etc. Thanks. Gav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 MGB633 1144 Be aware they are for teh late metric calipers, and assuming you have the earlier type, you will need to drill teh pin holes out a tad. The club shop sells them with the larger holes (a special order with mintex maybe) but there are many places to source the pads £50 here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MGB633-M1144-MINTEX-Brake-Pad-Set-disc-brake-front/401625909401?epid=1268157017&hash=item5d82c50899:g:6ZAAAOSwKA5b2Du1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigolf Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Thanks Clive. I'll check it out. Gav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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