SpitFire6 Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 Hi, For the last 20 years, I had thought about Automating parts of the car without using relay logic or 74/CMOS logic, OK until you have another idea that requires modification to the original. I need to be able to program with a PC. PIC could be interesting with a Display. I will not be off work long enough to learn this.. Decided on TIA Portal V16 software for programing & display, as I like it. Local hardware is all Siemens, Remote HW is Balluff. The display is a Siemens touch 7" HMI. I am not too worried about the Siemens HW being 24VDC. A small price to pay for using Siemens SW. I have around 80 Digital Inputs/Outputs available, loads of Analogue & some HighSpeed counters. Why? Why not? I Have enough IO to have it flashing like a fairy tree ready for Xmas but not Eid as that is too soon. I have nothing better to do. Cheers, Iain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 I'm not a PLC programmer - though have done one small project (S7) with it to control a couple of compressors for auto changeover on fault or on demand as well as to enable both on pressure dip - It was such a different concept to my usual BMS (Building Management System) software - or was at the time, BMS is becoming more like PLC these days - that I did find it hard to do - but got it sorted and it has been working for about 7years I guess without any issues or modifications. But it is the right concept in a car as BMS is probably too slow - even though it is a lot faster than it was 5years ago - so It will be interesting to see this project progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 Fascinating. I'm totally in awe of anyone who can do things like this, so keep us updated. In fact, have mercy on us lesser mortals who are completely in the dark and let me know what parts you would automate - is is simply just engine management, or are we talking lights, wipers etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Faulds Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 Suddenly thought I'd joined the foreign language tssc.? 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 My modern has a brain that monitors EVERYTHING, it recently told me I had a brake light gone. You can't check the brake lights yourself so something simpler, on a smaller scale on the Triumph would be useful. I found a break light failure sensor on Ebay, maybe I could use a Raspbery Pi to control it? Then I could add other stuff. A source of sensors would be good so I'm also looking forward to this project. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: In fact, have mercy on us lesser mortals who are completely in the dark Lucas was never that bad 😊. In fact the only leccy problems in 6 years Iv'e had on my car has been a indicator switch and one bulb. Maybe lucky?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted March 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 8 hours ago, Anglefire said: I'm not a PLC programmer - though have done one small project (S7) with it to control a couple of compressors for auto changeover on fault or on demand as well as to enable both on pressure dip - It was such a different concept to my usual BMS (Building Management System) software - or was at the time, BMS is becoming more like PLC these days - that I did find it hard to do - but got it sorted and it has been working for about 7years I guess without any issues or modifications. But it is the right concept in a car as BMS is probably too slow - even though it is a lot faster than it was 5years ago - so It will be interesting to see this project progress! Hi, I really like S7 portal SW, unfortunately, work customers dictate that we use S7 Classic programming SW. Using S7 Portal SW as it integrates with my 7" Touch-display easily. I have a K3 ECU. I have 4 X inputs fast enough to measure a frequency of 110KHz. Would like to connect to the ECU with a CANBus to USB adaptor but Will need to read a lot. Around 10ms scan time is fast enough for lighting, wipers, horn, coolant fans, and any switches. I have eight-channel of local Analogue for 5V sensors. Optional Analogue IO on remote devices is possible but slightly slower. Cheers, Iain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, daverclasper said: Lucas was never that bad 😊. In fact the only leccy problems in 6 years Iv'e had on my car has been a indicator switch and one bulb. Dave, The fuse box is just waiting it's time! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) Are they that bad, if you stop corrosion with electric grease, give the rivets a tap or solder, and close the holder gaps, as long as the metal isn't too fatigued?. I have got faith though in my wiring, as seems to factory spec, and in really good nick, must been restored?. More moderns, maybe catch fire more often?, even with all those fuses!, though difficult to compare, due to condition of car/mileage ones doing etc? . Apologies for the thread drift, as not about the old stuff anyway, though thought I'd get my "oar"? in. Dave Edited March 30, 2020 by daverclasper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 30, 2020 Report Share Posted March 30, 2020 110kHz is mega fast compared to a BMS. Direct IO is at best 25Hz for pulse counting. Over bacnet or modbus comms even on Ethernet is not fast but does depend on the number of devices and points attached. But to put that into context to control the temperature of a room doesn’t need that much speed. 30seconds is more than quick enough. Most speed is perceived- if the hmi reacts quickly nothing else matters frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 15 hours ago, Anglefire said: 110kHz is mega fast compared to a BMS. Direct IO is at best 25Hz for pulse counting. Over bacnet or modbus comms even on Ethernet is not fast but does depend on the number of devices and points attached. But to put that into context to control the temperature of a room doesn’t need that much speed. 30seconds is more than quick enough. Most speed is perceived- if the hmi reacts quickly nothing else matters frankly. Can someone please give me the English translation? I'm feeling totally lost... not to mention feeling very old... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted March 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) Hi, 100KHz is only available on 6 Inputs that would normally be available for Encoders but can be used as standard IO if not required. One will be used for engine RPM. 4 Outputs can also be configured as 100KHz Outputs. One will be used for Tacho. Pressure sensors were going to be purchased from AliExpress. I guess I will order in a couple of month's time. Cheers, Iain. Edited March 31, 2020 by SpitFire6 added HMI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted March 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Hi, The fastest update speed on Display/HMI is 100ms. The HMI runs Windows CE. The program scan time should be less than 10ms. I have an ethernet/Profinet for comms to field devices. Field devices have 4 Channels of IO-Link. I have 8GB of storage for data of my choice. I have USB. USB for GPS module & Radio (SDR). I have Profibus that I might be able to interface with the ECU if I can find HW & SW. Everything is 24VDC Powered. I have a couple of 12VDC LiFePO4 BMS batteries & a 12V to 28V module to keep battery pack happy. I have been thinking about doing this for over 20 years & if I do not do it now when? I have a box full of PIC16F877A-I/P & ULN2004's. PLC based is much easier for me. HMI design is simple with Siemens SW. Cheers, Iain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted March 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Hi, Does anybody know a source of commonly used warning lamp icons? Seems I can buy them & that will not happen. Vector illustrations would be perfect. On/Off, colours would be nice. The screen is 32bit colour but really needs to be just primary colours for the icons. Silhouette Triumph Spitfire found this. Style ideal but wrong vehicle. Cheers, Iain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 https://www.istockphoto.com/gb/illustrations/dashboard?mediatype=illustration&phrase=dashboard&sort=best Any use? All royalty free - the one that caught my eye is this set: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 11 hours ago, SpitFire6 said: Hi, 100KHz is only available on 6 Inputs that would normally be available for Encoders but can be used as standard IO if not required. One will be used for engine RPM. 4 Outputs can also be configured as 100KHz Outputs. One will be used for Tacho. Pressure sensors were going to be purchased from AliExpress. I guess I will order in a couple of month's time. Cheers, Iain. Looks a nice display - my one controller (Tridium - which runs a Java VM) polls the internal 16 IO points in 31ms - which is pretty good to be fair. Another controller which is android based is being scanned over BACnet in 47ms for 24 points - so actually I'm quite impressed - though that is not the internal controller speed which is 20ms. I have to say though that the graphics on modern BMS's can be very impressive - photo-quality is possible and fully interactive as they use HTML5 - some HMI's being effectively tablets, but a laptop or desktop is the usual interface and hence can have HUGE displays if you want! And of course, they support BLE and in some cases ZIGbee, Enocean and other wireless protocols. But is horses for courses. Both have their markets and both can do the other with lesser or greater degrees of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 12 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: Can someone please give me the English translation? I'm feeling totally lost... not to mention feeling very old... Have you ever played with a Raspberry PI? If you have with the IO modules, then that is what a PLC or BMS is - just a series of inputs and outputs tied together with logic. Or Arduino https://www.arduino.cc/ which is similar to the PI is some ways but more IO logic based rather than a Linux box (Usually!) with a bolt on IO option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 yes can all be done on a Pi or Ardunio but its nice to have the software to do all the tricky graphic stuff, and the PLC is designed to be very reliable. I have seen them installed in factories and just sit there working for years without any intervention. I have played with a PI driving a display from a megasquirt and one of the problems is the boot time and building in a safe shutdown when the power goes off, otherwise it tends to corrupt the SD card... I ended using a Ardunio to control the power to the Pi to shut it down safely. Look forward to seeing the finished (or part finished) project. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 I only mentioned PI and Ardunio as two generally available and affordable systems. I have one site we are starting to upgrade from a previous BMS - which has been installed in some parts of the factory since 2000/2001 and is only now starting to fail - and spares are no longer available. I know of other sites with the same hardware essentially dating back 10years earlier. Peripheral devices fail more often tbh. actually i did an upgrade on one site and had to change some old actuators for dampers - they dated back from the late 60’s early 70’s and still worked but were the wrong type. The replacements lasted less than 2years. Progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted April 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 19 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: https://www.istockphoto.com/gb/illustrations/dashboard?mediatype=illustration&phrase=dashboard&sort=best Any use? All royalty free - the one that caught my eye is this set: Cheers for the labels. I had seen them but have to pay for the vector (Hi-res) ones. I will try eyeball cutting them. I have spent most of the afternoon installing an earlier version (V13.) so I could take some code and ideas for a time a few years ago when I was bored in a hotel for a week. V16 needs a very modern PC to run smoothly. My Desktop mobo is 8 years old. It is impossible to make it any faster. Not wasting money on a graphics card. The downloads are DVD sizes. Cheers, Iain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 Iain - do you want the labels cut out onto a transparent background (png?) format? If so I can do that easily enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted April 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Anglefire said: Iain - do you want the labels cut out onto a transparent background (png?) format? If so I can do that easily enough. Nice one. png would be good. Cheers, Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 Hum, that ICON set might be royality free - but its not free - its £7! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 These "Should" be transparent? Its not a good starting image as there is a lot of mess around the individual icons - should be better with a better starting image - but this was quick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted April 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 Thanks, both of you. Still downloading & updating. Cheers, Iain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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