Honda Radiator in a Vitesse

[ahebron]

Johny with the Escort rad will you have to trim the side brackets off to make it fit?
The photos I see have what looks like a 40-50mm aluminium right angle welded to the side of them

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/performance/radiators-cooling-systems/listing-2601990285.htm?rsqid=cb9dc29094d54bafab5bfe7a96fcd17c-001

Also a Datsun 510 610 620 710 720 L20B Manual radiator looks like it might fit 

 

[SpitFire6]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

Yes, top it up at the bulkhead tank

But have to admit - I clamp the hose and check the rad top tank too!

Hi John,

If the rad cap is below the coolant top up you should never need to top it up?
The OEM system or new system without an expansion tank sucks in the air every time the engine is cycled. Even worse is the Rad cap is too low to remove air.
 

VW rad every time.

 

Cheers,

Iain.

[Clive]

21 hours ago, JohnD said:

Iain,

What do you do instead?

I do have an  expansion tank, you can see it on the bulkhead, in line with the engine, and the bonnet support pole.

JOhn

John, have you used a "seal cap" on the rad? A bit like a normal cap but nothing inside, looks a bit like an oil filter cap?

And next question, is you header tank a simple one pipe connection? If so you may benefit (or not) from one that bleeds the air out the system as the car runs. Lastly, being picky, I am surprised you didn't run a connection to the thermostat housing, possibly the highest point of the engine? I found a TR7 thermostat housing with a 32mm outlet to rad same side as your, but also had an 8mm bleed connection out the other side. May be ideal for your setup?

Not trying to be picky, but I know your car gets driven properly, with everything being tested to extremes. I like that.

[johny]

1 hour ago, ahebron said:

Johny with the Escort rad will you have to trim the side brackets off to make it fit?
The photos I see have what looks like a 40-50mm aluminium right angle welded to the side of them

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/performance/radiators-cooling-systems/listing-2601990285.htm?rsqid=cb9dc29094d54bafab5bfe7a96fcd17c-001

Also a Datsun 510 610 620 710 720 L20B Manual radiator looks like it might fit 

 

I havent fitted it up yet but the measurements look really good. Much the same as the Honda rad I was going to use the side brackets it comes with to bolt angles to for the mounting feet (but yes below those the rest of the brackets might need trimming off) and also small angles higher up for the valance fixings.

Its probably going to be overkill because I have a standard engine and, although I drive in very hot conditions sometimes, believe the law of diminishing returns applies. That is as you cool the coolant more the difference in temperature between it and ambient air reduces so the energy transfer is reduced and you need even more cooling surface!

[SpitFire6]

Hi,

 the Escort one has no coolant header. The rad will always be full of air. Great for corrosion unless you run it waterless.

Cheers,

Iain.

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, clive said:

John, have you used a "seal cap" on the rad? A bit like a normal cap but nothing inside, looks a bit like an oil filter cap?

And next question, is you header tank a simple one pipe connection? If so you may benefit (or not) from one that bleeds the air out the system as the car runs. Lastly, being picky, I am surprised you didn't run a connection to the thermostat housing, possibly the highest point of the engine? I found a TR7 thermostat housing with a 32mm outlet to rad same side as your, but also had an 8mm bleed connection out the other side. May be ideal for your setup?

Not trying to be picky, but I know your car gets driven properly, with everything being tested to extremes. I like that.

A "Seal cap"?   please explain?   Even Google fails to find me one of those!

Making th thermo husng cover was a saga!   I can't braze and welding, unless you are a master, is difficult to do and produce a weld without NO pin holes!    Took me ages, weld, test, mark, grind back and weld again, to a water-tight part!     Don't fancy dding a hose connection.

And the header does use coolant, especially after draing it down, so I presume it does "bleed air".   

Thnaks for thr TR7 husing tip.  That hs a side connection built in.  Could have saved myself some trouble there!

[SpitFire6]

Hi John,

The cap on the radiator is just that, a cap? PRV is on the expansion bottle? If so sounds good.

Cheers,

Iain.

[johny]

1 hour ago, SpitFire6 said:

Hi,

 the Escort one has no coolant header. The rad will always be full of air. Great for corrosion unless you run it waterless.

Cheers,

Iain.

The Chinese MK1/2 escort ally rads on eBay are very similar to the Honda one with a normal prv cap that vents to an open expansion bottle so suitable for use on an original Vitesse system.

[Nick Jones]

4 hours ago, SpitFire6 said:

VW rad every time.

Cheers,

Iain.

GT6 or Spit, yep. Vitesse....... no chance. Zip. Zero.

Nick.

[SpitFire6]

 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Nick Jones said:

GT6 or Spit, yep. Vitesse....... no chance. Zip. Zero.

Nick.

Hi,
So will not fit a Vitesse then?

Cheers,

Iain.

[SpitFire6]

38 minutes ago, johny said:

The Chinese MK1/2 escort ally rads on eBay are very similar to the Honda one with a normal prv cap that vents to an open expansion bottle so suitable for use on an original Vitesse system.

Hi,

 The very early ones had an expansion tank (Metal?)

The later ones had a rased top to act as an expansion area and would normally be full of air. The Escort one does not have this function.
The overflow bottle is just that. With the correct cap I guess it would suck up the some of the coolant again?

Cheers,

Iain.

[Nick Jones]

Nope..... Golf rad too wide to go between the chassis rails and too tall to go above.

Not much room between the front of the engine and the front of the car...... GT6 is spacious by comparison!

Nick

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, SpitFire6 said:

Hi John,

The cap on the radiator is just that, a cap? PRV is on the expansion bottle? If so sounds good.

Cheers,

Iain.

No.

There is a conventional rad cap on the rad.    It's marked in Chinese (Japanese?) characters plus "11", so 11psi?

The expansion also has a spring loaded cap, marked "7 PSI".     

What's your interpretation?

 

[SpitFire6]

3 minutes ago, JohnD said:

No.

There is a conventional rad cap on the rad.    It's marked in Chinese (Japanese?) characters plus "11", so 11psi?

The expansion also has a spring loaded cap, marked "7 PSI".     

What's your interpretation?

 

Hi,

 does the outlet of the 11 PSI cap exit into the system? If so the 7 PSI cap will never operate. So that sounds good.

Cheers,

Iain.

[Clive]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

A "Seal cap"?   please explain?   Even Google fails to find me one of those!

Making th thermo husng cover was a saga!   I can't braze and welding, unless you are a master, is difficult to do and produce a weld without NO pin holes!    Took me ages, weld, test, mark, grind back and weld again, to a water-tight part!     Don't fancy dding a hose connection.

And the header does use coolant, especially after draing it down, so I presume it does "bleed air".   

Thnaks for thr TR7 husing tip.  That hs a side connection built in.  Could have saved myself some trouble there!

So the radiator cap is now just a blanking cap. Means the radiator neck is just a place for air to ris eup to, and get pushed (hopefully!!) to the expansion tank.

TR7 thermostat housing. No idea what years that version was used though. 

[SpitFire6]

Hi,

 That's an interesting thermo cap. For my top hose, yours is more suitable.

Added an auto bleed to mine to be sure there was never any gas there.

Cheers,

Iain.

[JohnD]

Bit like when you have diarrhoea - how does it know when it's safe to open?

The rad cap is what came with the rad, and it's not the same size as the Triumph one.   So my collection of old rocker cover caps won't do.

[SpitFire6]

5 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Bit like when you have diarrhoea - how does it know when it's safe to open?

The rad cap is what came with the rad, and it's not the same size as the Triumph one.   So my collection of old rocker cover caps won't do.

Hi,

 If the "overflow" of the rad outlet is connected to coolant system; It will never open/operate, even if it was 2 PSI.

Cheers,

Iain

[Nick Jones]

1 hour ago, clive said:

TR7 thermostat housing. No idea what years that version was used though. 

Quite like that - though not sure the angles work for the 6........  Wasn't the 1850 similar but with a screw-in cap for filling/bleeding?

We made our own - sort of - by drilling and tapping a Spitfire one for a vent pipe.  Not all Spitty ones have the convenient bosses for the tapping though.

[Clive]

the 1850 (I think, could be more than 1 variety) is same as sprint

[JohnD]

No, the autobleed valve!

Fart?  Or wet fart?

[Clive]

14 hours ago, JohnD said:

Bit like when you have diarrhoea - how does it know when it's safe to open?

The rad cap is what came with the rad, and it's not the same size as the Triumph one.   So my collection of old rocker cover caps won't do.

Ah, I guess the rad cap will work but will only bleed when over pressured. Possibly 15-20psi? should still suck coolant back as it cools. 

 

That autobleed is a domestic heating gizmo, possibly has a float? not sure on temperature rating. 

But I am a firm believer in using a bleed from the highest point of the system to the top of a expansion tank, and a larger connection at the bottom of the tank plumbed into the bottom radiator hose. Very effective at getting rid of air from the system. 

[thescrapman]

You need to find a 1300 fwd one, may just be 1300TC, will try and get a photo of one

[SpitFire6]

Hi,

The Auto-bleed on mine is at the engines highest level coolant point. My expansion tank low-level coolant is above this point so Zero gas in the system. Zero oxygen, so corrosion controlled.

The Auto-bleed is compatible with very hot engine coolant & 20 PSI.  I did email the manufacturer to confirm the house radiator Auto-Bleed would work. Been on the car for two years+ now.

The Automatic capsule does unscrew from its housing & is then manually operated by pressing down on the center pin.

I was going to fit the standard House radiator one with the square-headed bleed screw, but the Auto-bleed one was not expensive.

Cheers,

Iain.

[JohnD]

Since I got no answer to my question on how such a valve works, I looked it up.     Trade sites seem to assume that consumers wil accept that they work by magic:  "How does a self bleeding radiator valve work?  In simple terms once fitted the valve will open to let any air escape. As water hits the valve it automatically shuts so that no water escapes to ensure there is no leakage, as air enters the radiator this is repeated again."  (Radiator Valves Online)

But from an outfit called Calleffi, that sells such things in the US: " The automatic discharge is based on the property of the cellulose fibre discs forming the seal cartridge.  In this way, when the system is operating under normal conditions, the discs are immersed and, thanks to their increase in volume, they close the valve. However, when air is present, the discs dry out and allow the air to vent. The hygroscopic discs close very quickly, in just a few seconds. The drying times are such that there are no problems with the cycle of formation and elimination of air."    See: https://www.caleffi.com/sites/default/files/file/01090.pdf

But I note the advice that he discs must be changed every 36 months, or more frequently in hard water areas.    The effect of antifreeze is not covered!  I also note a chart on that page (It's a PDF, I can't copy it here) that says the 'drying time' for a disc is a half to a quarter of an hour at near boiling point.   So I assum ethat the disc must be exposed to air for that long before it will release?

An idea from domestic central heating rads to Spitfires!  NIce one!

John

PS here's a diagram of how they function:  

From https://www.designerradiatorsdirect.co.uk/blog/aladdins-vent/  where it says: 

Within the vent, there are ‘hygroscopic’ washers which act as a gate, or valve. While venting the air, these allow it to pass through without a problem until it’s all gone and water contacts the washers.   At that point they swell, expanding enough to completely close off the minute opening which moments ago had air gushing through, and at that point bob is well and truly your uncle; the bleed is done.