Vitesse 1600 engines.

[haggis]

Hi all, anyone know if there are any variations in the vitesse 1600 engines, throughout the production span? The reason I ask is I’m contemplating buying a pre-machined block to reduce time on my rebuild. I have a late 1600 and was wondering if cranks, flywheels, pistons, cylinder heads etc were compatible with all 1600 engines. 
 

thanks hag 

[Pete Lewis]

as far as i see yes there was little change through the years , maybe crank oil scroll to  an oil seal , 

as  same crank as mk1 2 ltr and same camshaft 

quick scan of canley parts lists doesnt throw up any mismatch 

the hardest part would be 1600  66.75MM pistons or any oversizes might prove a supply search.

 

[JohnD]

Just out of interest, Pete, could a 1600 block be bored out to 2L, or would that need liners all around?

[NonMember]

18 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

  same crank as mk1 2 ltr

... up to engine HC4499, after which the Mk1 2L got a new block and the Mk2 crank/conrods/flywheel/fuel pump/front plate.

[Pete Lewis]

dont know that John, ive read somewhere if you fit 69.3mm   herald pistons or 73.of the 1300  you need to offset bore to keep cyl wall thickness to the water jacket 

so reckon theres something a bit marginal but 

and just found  larger   0.8"cam follower from HB28896  

Pete

[haggis]

Thanks guys. I was looking to build up a second short engine for easy  swap over, to keep the car off the road for the least length of time. Cam followers is fine as I’ll use my original head and I’ve managed to source some AE+40 pistons (for £60🙃) so looking good, I’m I right in thinking there is a better cam, that’s a straight swap? 
 

thanks hag 

[Pete Lewis]

cam followers are in the block no the head  so ..size matters  

 orig  is  307621    later 2 ltr   308778/311399    about the best     .....but check journal diameters  !!!!!!

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID007801    i wouldnt go for any silly cams  

[haggis]

Thanks Pete, for some reason I thought they were in the head, what a numpty I’am. I’ll check cam journals, and thanks for the numbers on the cams. 
The only downside of making a second donor short engine is the matching numbers, do you think it makes a great deal of difference on values? 
 

hag 

[Iain T]

I believe the warranty on new cams is null and void unless new compatible followers are installed. The hardness compatibility of camshaft lobes and followers is critical to long life wear. Buyer beware, I bought mine from Newmans as a set.

Iain

[Pete Lewis]

definitely   cam and followers are a very firm must be matched , as bedded in pairs , if you fit old followers to a new cam the wear  form on the follower  face will pluck the edge off the lobes  and new cam new followers need a run in sequence and  some req.   special lubrication 

Pete

[dave.vitesse]

From engine number HB16302, late 1963, the combustion chambers were reshaped in the cylinder head to improve the combustion. This was similar to the work carried out on the Vanguard Six engine prior to it being fitted into the Triumph 2000 Saloon.

Dave

[ahebron]

On 19/06/2020 at 19:05, dave.vitesse said:

From engine number HB16302, late 1963, the combustion chambers were reshaped in the cylinder head to improve the combustion. This was similar to the work carried out on the Vanguard Six engine prior to it being fitted into the Triumph 2000 Saloon.

Dave

I wonder if there is a head number that relates to that.
I have a NOS bare head for a 1600 in my shed as a spare and my car and engine are 1965.

Adrian

[haggis]

Hi all, thanks for your responses, some further questions for you. 

a, - does ‘matching numbers’ affect valuations very much? 
b, anyone know full range of engine numbers for the 6? 
c, the short engine I’m looking at has a cam bearing conversion, will this affect the cam I can use? 
 

thanks hag 

[haggis]

My last post didn’t seem to show up as new, so sending this in the hope someone might look at it. 
 

thanks

hag 

[Pete Lewis]

Hag,

I read it but dont have the clues 

other than valuation is affected by not having an engine  , matching has some credit.

as for the cam .. well the journal has to fit the bore  . do you know if this was bored over size to fit  the back to size  bearing 

what diameter is it ???

wsm gives  journal as 1.8402/1.8407"  bore in block as 1.8433/1.8448"

 

Pete

[Gary Flinn]

On 22/06/2020 at 13:05, haggis said:

Hi all, thanks for your responses, some further questions for you. 

a, - does ‘matching numbers’ affect valuations very much? - It wouldn't bother me too much but I suppose some people might be bothered, not a great affect on the price though?  
b, anyone know full range of engine numbers for the 6? - I'm assuming HB00001 up to around HB32000 (Around 31,000 Vitesse 6 Models manufactured in the UK) 
c, the short engine I’m looking at has a cam bearing conversion, will this affect the cam I can use? - I wouldn't have thought so, obviously the Cam journals need to be the correct diameter to suit the Bearing size as per Pete's comments?
 

thanks hag 

Haggis

My comments adjacent your queries?

Regards

Gary

[Colin Lindsay]

On 22/06/2020 at 13:05, haggis said:

a, - does ‘matching numbers’ affect valuations very much? 
thanks hag 

It would, but more on very high-value vehicles where having everything original is important. It's nice to see a car with the original engine and other ancillaries, but then, they may be original and uncared-for, so it's no guarantee of quality. It's a long, drawn-out debate; does fitting a 1500 engine into a 1200 make it more desirable, or has it lost its' originality? Not enough page space here for the endless pros and cons...

[haggis]

Thanks guys, as always your comments , knowledge and experience greatly appreciated. 
 

thanks

hag