GT6 mk3 Clutch Master Cylinder

[dan.mellors]

Any opinions on TRW Vs. Girling 'Original' clutch master cylinders on Rimmers?

Thanks, Dan

[Colin Lindsay]

I've no personal experience of them but I know there were problems a while back, a few posts on other Triumph forums about leaks and brakes sticking, and yet other forums (Landrover) swear by them and say they're great. I've read that there was a bad batch circulating, but can't find any other info as to whether they've now been sorted, and as I've said other owners have no bother at all. Not much help, I know, but maybe someone else here has tried one?

[dan.mellors]

Thanks Colin,

I read the TRW and Girling are now one and the same. This is TRW with the right part number rather than the very cheap ebay special.

[Pete Lewis]

the main difference with OEM and the landrover spec is vast cost variance and the angle of the reservoir

if you dont brim the res that is not any real issue 

end fill cyls are available from car builder solutions and merlin motor sport where you can get the correct diameter and a nice removable plastic larger capacity reservoir, most just need the push rod swapping over , can be a economical alternative to the normal suppliers 

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

the main difference with OEM and the landrover spec is vast cost variance and the angle of the reservoir

if you dont brim the res that is not any real issue 

end fill cyls are available from car builder solutions and merlin motor sport where you can get the correct diameter and a nice removable plastic larger capacity reservoir, most just need the push rod swapping over , can be a economical alternative to the normal suppliers 

Pete

[dan.mellors]

Thanks for the info.

This doesn't look to be the Landrover version, perhaps more of a TRW remake of the Girling OEM...

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID007987

[Pete Lewis]

the landy type is sold on e bay as uprated  what it means is its 0.75"  rather than  0,7"  has upright resv.  and normally around £20 and raises the pedal effort 

its interesting that genuine landy have a very low mark up its just finding the compatible part used by many makes or the  Era

just some waffle 

Pete

[johny]

The part number is STC500100 and they start at about a tenner but do need a clevis fitting....

[Peter Truman]

Not GT6 but TR6 related a couple of years ago a friend who isn't to mech minded rang to say his clutch master was leaking and we had a club run on the Sunday so a quick check showed a trailer brake master was the same bore/piston dia and pipe threads so I picked one up from the local trailer suppliers $25, drove the 50klm down the bay to his place and an hour later it was fitted and bled so we celebrated with a glass of red, clutch and car still going well. To buy a new Girlock on Triumph supplier master was nearly $200, even repaired S/S sleeved around $110.

Interestingly I had a brake master re-sleeved once and rather than the thin stainless steel sleeve it was a thicker chromed brass sleeve looked a lot more substantial the supplier said it avoided the sharp edge of the hole drilled thro from the reservoir! that master is in the Vitesse and no problems.

Moral do a little homework and clutch's ain't brakes so there not life dependent!  

[Colin Lindsay]

13 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

clutch's ain't brakes so there not life dependent!  

They can be, especially when you're sitting at the roadside, you can't get any gears, no mobile signal to call breakdown recovery and your passenger is whinging about missing Coronation Street...

[NonMember]

6 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

They can be, especially when you're ...

... or your engine seized as you mounted a level crossing and the gear lever won't budge because of the load and the barriers have just come down because there's a train coming...

(This is similar to a scenario that Volvo quoted when we queried the logic behind a particular part of their software spec.)

[Pete Lewis]

 

just with clutch failure

with a clear road and a good look around   

start it up  in gear and with a firm load on the stick and a bit of revs alignment you can change gear quite easily

just remember to switch off when you want to stop !!!!   or need reverse !!!!

if you also have no brakes its a whole new game with rope anchor and a change of underwear 

pete

edit to add just clutch

 

[Peter Truman]

I’ve always managed to get a car home under it’s own power when a clutch has failed or it’s hydraulics but brakes I’d do a Colin and park at the roadside I used to have a satellite phone never let me down! Who watch’s  Coronation St or Neighbours!

Sorry!

[dan.mellors]

Thanks everyone,

I ordered TRW master and new slave etc.

next question...

 

Is it normal for a flexible clutch hose to seal against the master and/or slave using a copper washer? I think I was expecting it to seal on the cone.

Thanks,

Dan

[Colin Lindsay]

I don't think there is any kind of tapered seal on these; they just screw in to the end of the threads with the washer (which is always too large) acting as the compressible seal.

[NonMember]

The original fitment was a rigid pipe, not a flexible hose. That would have sealed with a flare into the tapered bottom of the thread in the cylinder.

[dan.mellors]

Thanks both,

Yes I took a rigid steel pipe off, and I'm used to the flares on the brake circuit, which is what made me think twice about the copper washer (yes, too large) before I put it together. The flexi looked like an good upgrade but I guess that remains to be seen.

[Peter Truman]

I’ve seen pic’s of banjo’s fitted to some calipers which use a copper sealing washer both sides, but I assume there should be a machined landing or mating surface on the part being sealed/bolted to.

[Pete Lewis]

the clutch uses a much lower line pressure the  brakes so sealing is ok at a lower grade design  ie washer rather than flares

historic problems when flexible clutch lines were used in the 70s was when hot they blew /expanded under pressure and clutch clearing could become a problem , i used a  braided flex on the vit6 for years without any problem you gain some engine noise reduction into the baulkhead better than the full bundy even with a coil added .

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, dan.mellors said:

Thanks both,

Yes I took a rigid steel pipe off, and I'm used to the flares on the brake circuit, which is what made me think twice about the copper washer (yes, too large) before I put it together. The flexi looked like an good upgrade but I guess that remains to be seen.

I've had one of the stainless clutch pipes on the GT6 for years now - at least ten - and no bother so far. 

[rogerguzzi]

Hello All

             When I fitted a S/S flexible pipe to our Spitfire I left the rigid pipe on but fitted it to the bleed side and fitted a bleed nipple at the Master cylinder end now I can bleed the clutch from the engine bay.

Roger

[Colin Lindsay]

47 minutes ago, rogerguzzi said:

Hello All

             When I fitted a S/S flexible pipe to our Spitfire I left the rigid pipe on but fitted it to the bleed side and fitted a bleed nipple at the Master cylinder end now I can bleed the clutch from the engine bay.

Roger

That makes a lot of sense! Far easier than faffing about down by the bellhousing.

[rogerguzzi]

15 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

That makes a lot of sense! Far easier than faffing about down by the bellhousing.

Hello Colin

                  To be honest you just have to slacken the nipple and it bleeds its self plus any air is in the vertical pipe not in the cylinder

Roger

[Pete Lewis]

you can also use a redundant brake flex hose with a bleeder fitted to any clutch slave  

not just good on a 6 cyl  it can also help on a  4  cyl saves getting underside 

its a very useful and cheap upgrade must have ..........  you must have

Pete

[Dick Twitchen]

6 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

brake flex hose with a bleeder fitted

Did that over lockdown, and a piece of clingfilm under the master cylinder cap meant no fluid loss in the process.

Dick