Jeffds1360 Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 Good afternoon gentlemen (not noticed any ladies on here yet?) Happy lockdown again My 13/60 has a Toledo box with overdrive. I was 'fiddling about' as one does, with the car in the garage and the ignition was on. The car was in neutral I accidently moved the gear lever from the left to the right and hears a loud 'electrical crack sound' (my head was in the footwell) I checked and found o/d was in OFF position??? I jiggled and fiddled, removed the o/d switch and 'adjusted' the switch contacts. All seems well now and the loud 'crack' only occurs when o/d switch is ON and I move the gear lever from left to the right and a muted click when moved right to left with the ignition on. Questions is.... is this "clicking " normal. Thanks for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, Jeffds1360 said: (not noticed any ladies on here yet?) There is actually, albeit not serial posters. That sound is the solenoid engaging & disengaging; which you will only hear when the ignition is on and the stick is moved to the right making contact with the OD inhibitor switch to energise the solenoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 Clicking is (probably) the solenoid operating. The inhibitor switch is doing its job, you only get ODin 3rd/4th ie when stick on on the right. (Toledos never had OD, but do have 4 synchro boxes, identical to mkIV spitfire. Kipping sold many many OD conversions using 4 synchro boxes, yours is likely one of them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 i guess this is a Dtype (solenoid on the rh side) there are two things to click the relay and the main solenoid a light click is the relay on the baulkhead somewhere the louder is the sol on the OD the fact the loud/soft click depends how the relay has been wired if its live all the time and the od on /off is after then it will be clicking when 3rd/4th is engaged , the louder click from when you call for OD this is not normal the od switch call should control the relay the relay controls the main od solenoid ..... if you get my drift mademoiselle pierre have you not read Paula's posts ????????? thats a good start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 26 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: mademoiselle pierre Oh Gawd is it Thursday already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 yep the 5th of November Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: yep the 5th of November Ah yes. "Remember remember the 5th of November Gunpowder treason and plot I see no reason why Peter of Lewis Cannot be called Mademoiselle on a Thursday, if that's the way he wants it..." Doesn't quite scan, for some reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 That sounds perfectly normal to me when you move the lever right with od switch on the solenoid engages with a fairly load snap when you move the lever to the left it will disengage which is much quieter. There are 2 switches for the od the column or gear lever switch and an inhibitor switch so that it only operates in 3rd and 4th, so if the overdrive witch is on moving the lever will activate the inhibitor switch which when both are on activates the solenoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffds1360 Posted November 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) Ok. Thanks lads. I may look at rewiring as per Pete's options and only make the solenoid live when the column switch is activated. It threw me when it activated and the column switch was off! Carpets and tunnel off again to trace the PO's wiring P.S. which line should I put a fuse in and of what rating? Edited November 5, 2020 by Jeffds1360 Extra querie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 yes but if the relay is quietly clicking when the OD switch is OFF then the relay being powered up from somewhere unwanted all the time and the main solenoid is being switched downstream of the relay all a bit back to front Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 I thought the OP had fixed the switch as clearly it shouldn't activate when the od switch is off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, DanMi said: I thought the OP had fixed the switch as clearly it shouldn't activate when the od switch is off You might want to include a warning light to show when the od is engaged , I’ve done this on my Vitesse Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffds1360 Posted November 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 Yes, I may do that. More investigation today. I hope it was an 'iffy' column switch and that my 'adjustments' of it have cured the problem Hard to tell as the PO had done some weird and incorrect modifications which I am working through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 as i read it ?? its the relay click is still on going the sol click is solved ??? agree with OD Off nothing should be "clicking" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 8 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: as i read it ?? its the relay click is still on going the sol click is solved ??? That's not how I read the opening post. He said he'd fiddled with the column switch and it now only clicks if that's turned on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 I took it to be a loud clack when the O/D is on and the gearstick is moved into the 3rd or 4th gear position - so solenoid - and a muted click when moved out of 3rd or 4th - so the solenoid going off again. It seems the relay problem has been sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffds1360 Posted November 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 (edited) EDITED... twice I'm pretty sure it was the column switch. All seems well now. Tunnel still off while I trace all the red wires that he installed. Looks like live (from coil) goes to 86 (WRONG see below), 85 goes to column switch and on to the isolating switch on 3rd, 4th(2nd WRONG! it switches to earth! the 3rd,4th isolater switch is wired into? somewhere in dash which must prive an ignition live.) and back to 30.(WRONG! see below) Solenoid wired to 87. Relay has a plug in 15a fuse. Never seen that before. It works when static. Loud clunk from solenoid and light click from relay. Test run tomorrow if it stays dry. Thanks lads. ******... I got that wiring wrong ..... swap 30 for 86 I was upside down on my head. Coil live feed to 30 and 85 looped to 86 via both switches as it should be Wish I knew how to 'put a line through text!, ? Found the wiring diagram in my old 1964 WSM under vitesse Edited November 8, 2020 by Jeffds1360 wrong contacts :) and wrong link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffds1360 Posted November 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2020 I've double checked the wiring and see that the low amp circuit goes to earth via the column switch, to the column itself. Ignition switch live goes to relay 85 and all the way back from 86 via the gearbox switch to the column switch. This can all be thinner wire? (It's heavy duty at the moment) WSM Diagrams show it earthed via the gearbox switch, with the sw coil live going to column switch. (Old 1966 book which includes Vitesse diagrams) Not sure which is best. I'm looking to have the shortest high ampage circuit. Which route is recommended these days? SW live off coil to relay and relay to solenoid need to be heavy duty wire I believe? How is the heavier wire to the solenoid meant to be clipped in place? Is that double Dutch or just swahili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted November 9, 2020 Report Share Posted November 9, 2020 44 minutes ago, Jeffds1360 said: SW live off coil to relay and relay to solenoid need to be heavy duty wire I believe? I'm not sure I'd take the high current feed off the coil, as the coil supply may not be heavy duty wire. The factory wiring for a Mk3 Spitfire with D-type O/D takes the relay contacts feed from "ignition switch terminal 1", which is the brown, unswitched wire. The winding is supplied by a white wire from "ignition switch terminal 2", then the ground side of the relay winding passes through the column switch to the inhibitor switch thence to ground. The Vitesse 6 diagram does put the relay windings between the two switches but still takes the contacts supply from the ignition switch brown terminal. The coil connection is the top side of the column switch, which is the light duty circuit. Given that the relay is mounted on the bulkhead, I've tended to feed the contacts from the starter solenoid, as that's a very solid battery positive terminal. So the heavy cables are: Starter solenoid brown wire to relay pin 30, and relay pin 87 to O/D solenoid. The light cables are: coil +ve to relay pin 86, relay pin 85 to column switch, and column switch to gearbox switch Edited to swap relay coil numbers, as 85 seems to be "ground" normally, not that it matters at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffds1360 Posted November 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2020 Now that's great and thanks. Sensible to use starter solenoid too. The PO that wired this was **¥# I've got 14 and 22 wiring to use, I dont trust what is on after that short to earth. I'll look at swapping the light/heavy feeds but it is column switch to earth not through inhibitor so I'll have to do myself some diagrams and redesign it a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 11 hours ago, Jeffds1360 said: but it is column switch to earth not through inhibitor It doesn't matter much what order the two switches and the relay coil are in, as long as they're all in series. The factory took the gearbox inhibitor switch to earth because it reduces the number of wires fed to the gearbox sub-harness. If you adopt the Vitesse 6 method - feeding power to the column switch from the back of the ignition switch - then you also reduce the number of wires across the car behind the dash, but it's harder to put a fuse in the right place in the circuit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 the Dtype takes a pull in current of approx 10amps for just a few seconds once the OD sol reaches the end od a short travel it clicks a switch in the end of the solenoid to cut the pull in coil 10amp down to a hold in coil of approx 0'5 amp this 10A is why a decent initial feed and cable is substantial and from a decent source but its only for a blink of the eye if the pull in coil is energised all the time you can fry eggs on the sol. the switch is under the rubber boot and unless a very old version is not really repairable with any D type OD its worth linking a ammeter in the circuit just to see all is well as a test . Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffds1360 Posted November 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 Right .... it seems that the only things I need to change are the live feed from the coil to 30 (w2 on old diagram) to a feed from the starter solenoid and I can reduce the wire size down on the 85 (c1) to column switch. You will note my 85/86 are 'reversed' but that is not a problem, I'm trying to reduce the length of wiring and 'heavy cable' Or.... should I totally rewire and ground the solenoid and 'liven up' the column switch? why is nothing simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 10, 2020 Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 its a classic they do this to you , nothing you do will ever solve anything just brings you closer to the ......NEXT job Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffds1360 Posted November 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2020 just torqueing up all my rear suspension now. Also found coil wires were not soldered to bayonets!!! It goes on... but..... it is something to do and.... I enjoy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now