Colin Lindsay Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 The Haynes manual says thrust washers should be fitted 'with the oil grooves outwards away from the bearing'. This means copper side outwards, silver side inwards. Canley's exploded diagram shows the grooves pointing inwards. Unless I've interpreted the instructions incorrectly, somebody's not right... so for peace of mind with a newly rebuilt 1200 engine can someone confirm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 I would put them in as above Colin? Copper with back to the non moving item. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 Lindsay Porter's book also says: 'ensure their oil grooves face outwards'. To me, 'outwards' means away from the crank bearing housing so the copper sides will be facing front and rear, not both facing each other in the inner sides. I've just fitted mine in the opposite direction to the diagram above, silver side to the moving crank. I can see a lot of headscratching coming on... thankfully I have a spare engine I can check, but only as a last resort... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 What's the point of the oil groove if it's not facing the moving part? Doug 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just to clarify, no matter what any drawings or instructions might say: the oil groove/white metal face of thrust bearings must be in contact with the moving surface! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 54 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: Lindsay Porter's book also says: 'ensure their oil grooves face outwards'. To me, 'outwards' means away from the crank so the copper sides will be facing front and rear, not both facing each other in the inner sides. I've just fitted mine in the opposite direction to the diagram above, silver side to the moving crank. I can see a lot of headscratching coming on... thankfully I have a spare engine I can check, but only as a last resort... Sorry Colin, yes the silver side is the bearing side so should face the crank..... I thought the side with the grooves was the bearing side... Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 That's what I thought - it seems logical, the white metal side is to the moving part ie the crank; but then it begs the question - why have the oil grooves against the non-moving side? That's the way I fitted them, white metal inwards, and then only after when I was looking for another part spotted the Canley's diagram with the thrust washers facing the opposite way. Now all I need to do is confirm I have the bearing caps on in the correct orientation; I marked them 1 2 and 3 but not front and rear... does the 'Stanpart' side go to the front or the rear? There's always summat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 ooops looking online the load side of the thrusts isnt necessarily silver coloured as it can be coppery coloured but if theres oil grooves they definitely should go against the crank! Also the stationary side is steel and stamped with the maker/size... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 some previous owner fitted the thrusts back to front on my 2000 its not done the crank any favours couldnt work out why a thicker thrust would not fit a rattling good gap till i found the wear/worn radius at the root of the journal . oil grooves to the crank pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just to be extra sure: first pic is of stationary face and second goes against moving part👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 spot on Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaks Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 If you really want to be sure you can do what I did and pin the thrusts to stop them falling out. Here's a couple of pictures of them fitted (the right way round) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 Mine are as above, copper one side with grooves, white metal the other with part number stamped. This means Haynes is correct as the oil grooves face outwards, not inwards as shown in the exploded diagram - so it's wrong, and I think I've fitted them correctly. The Autopress manual says: "fitting the two thrust washers to the rear journal with their white-metal faces bearing against the crankshaft faces, as shown in fig 1.27." This appears to show the copper side with the two oil grooves to the outsides - the hand to the right is holding the rearmost washer and you can see the grooves pointing towards the rear therefore the rotating face of the crank, but it's confusing as it refers to the white metal faces and they're actually copper, the silver side - which I got confused about with all the talk of white metal - is the 'wrong' side. All I can do is go by the illustrated position of the grooves and put them against the moving crank. BTW Peaks, you have four? I've only got two... Heralds don't have the lower pair. Are we all agreed in any case - coppery side with grooves against the crank faces, and silver side with stamping against the housing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaks Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: BTW Peaks, you have four? I've only got two... Heralds don't have the lower pair. Vitesse don't normally either, but as I was getting the machining work done to pin the thrusts, they also machined the block to take another pair giving 360 degree bearing surface and (hopefully) longer life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 Don't confuse me like that!! I had to check to make sure I was only meant to have two... After all that palaver, I had to nip out to the garage and by means of a large magnifying glass and torch I can confirm I've fitted mine with the copper side outwards so oil grooves against the crank, as per the very first post. Relief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaks Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 😄👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 All this talk of in or out...... i thought you were building an engine Colin not doing the "hokey kokey" Tony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 10, 2021 Report Share Posted June 10, 2021 I think something that adds to the confusion is that some (better quality?) thrust bearings are actually silver both sides with one being white metal, possibly on top of copper, and the other is the steel backing stamped with maker and size... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 from the days gone past thrust washers two types if white metal (with oil groove) are based on a copper backing form so its white to the crank most thrusts are copper ( again with grooves ) and are tougher than white metal but have a steel backing so they are copper to the crank its the grooves are the tell tale , a soft white metal thrust wont last as long and if you fit either back to front as it seems to happen a lot you soon wear the crank thrust face if thats happened you can have two choices re grind the crank fit over size thrusts Or allow the rear thrust to wear to the crank and fit a thicker thrust to the non clutch thrust side to control end float not exactly a bodge but it will give you miles of running without excess float Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 9 hours ago, johny said: I think something that adds to the confusion is that some (better quality?) thrust bearings are actually silver both sides with one being white metal, possibly on top of copper, and the other is the steel backing stamped with maker and size... This. The key is that the grooved sides are the ones with the bearing material, which may be silvery coloured or coppery coloured. They must face the moving parts - the crank, or bad things will very soon happen. The other important clue is that the back side usually has the part number and the size stamped on them. To add, experience suggests that the coppery coloured version are more robust and less inclined to smear the bearing material. Therefore if the size combination means I have one of each I always fit the coppery one on the flywheel side as that’s the one that takes the clutch (or torque converter) loads. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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