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steering wheel.


dave49
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hi all anyone want to buy a triumph herald?mine is driving me crackers lol. ive bought a wood steering wheel and boss "with all fittings".after struggling to remove old wheel i finally did it and tried to fit the new one.took a while to suss out that one cable goes to earth somewhere but god knows where.also from the picture,you can see that the earth cable doesnt go through the hole in the boss (the holes too small).any suggestions where the earth might go. if anyone has done this a few pics would be useful. it seems that every job that should in theory be simple doesnt go to plan.cheers

 

boss.JPG

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Err... that's not how they work. It looks like that's the wrong sort of horn push and/or wheel. The Triumph wheel uses a slip ring on the column contacted by a pin that looks like part of a biro tube with a bit of copper sticking out each end. It's spring loaded to get the contact with the slip ring. The horn push should have a flat copper tab for the other end of that pin, no lucar connectors. Earth is provided by the column itself, through the hub and the spring clip on the side of the horn push.

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The push looks very much like the one supplied with my Motolita boss. The boss should have a hole through it to allow the sprung-loaded connector to contact the slip ring described by NM above. Motolita actually supplied 2 with my boss. The wire from this connects to the horn push. The other contact is the spring you can see which holds the push unit in place and contacts the boss. When you press the horn, the slip ring is connected to the column via the boss (and column earths) to complete the circuit.

Gully 

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53 minutes ago, NonMember said:

Err... that's not how they work. It looks like that's the wrong sort of horn push and/or wheel. The Triumph wheel uses a slip ring on the column contacted by a pin that looks like part of a biro tube with a bit of copper sticking out each end. It's spring loaded to get the contact with the slip ring. The horn push should have a flat copper tab for the other end of that pin, no lucar connectors. Earth is provided by the column itself, through the hub and the spring clip on the side of the horn push.

with the wooden steering wheel you have a hub (shown in the photo) because the centre of the wood wheel is only thin.this brings it out to the thickness of the original wheel.the wires connect to live and earth i can get the horn to work but as i said the earth cable wont go through the hole in the hub. cheers

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33 minutes ago, dave49 said:

the wires connect to live and earth i can get the horn to work but as i said the earth cable wont go through the hole in the hub

... and as I said, you DON'T put the earth through that hole. You put the slip ring contact pin through that. The top of that pin goes to the push - normally just by resting against it on a standard design wheel - and the other side of the push is earthed to the hub, which is earthed to the steering column by the big nut in the middle. Since I don't see any provision for doing so, I must conclude that this is either a mis-matched set or a defective product. Complain to the supplier or manufacturer.

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yes you have to solder the end of the button wire to the soldered end of the sprung biro  

if a bic biro fits thro the hole that will take the sprung pencil  you dont have  there are two lengths to suit different hubs 

you can see the biro/pencill has a rubbing end and a soldered end so it only fits rubbing brush to the slip ring

Picture of HORN BRUSH(142534)

 

 

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obviously mine is different to the others.as you can see by my pic the horn button has two connectors on it with two wires. the only way they can connect is through the hole in the boss.this was bought through the club so i assume its a different design.

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5 minutes ago, dave49 said:

obviously mine is different to the others.as you can see by my pic the horn button has two connectors on it with two wires. the only way they can connect is through the hole in the boss.this was bought through the club so i assume its a different design.

It doesn't matter in the slightest whether it's a "different design" of push, the horn system on the column needs one of those sprung biro things like Pete's photo and that is what the hole in the boss is for. YOU DO NOT PUT WIRES THROUGH THERE. No questions, no "if it's different"s, that's the simple, absolute bottom line that you need to accept. The horn push, whether it be an original Triumph type, Jeff's type, or your type, must connect between the top of the biro and the centre column. No ifs, buts, or options. That's the circuit. How you achieve it - whether by the push conducting to its retaining clip or a threaded hole in the opposite side of the boss or whatever - doesn't change that.

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Yes. Doug &Colin are right. Mine is a 13/60 and you need to shorten the wire, bin the rest and connect it to the the brass centre of the 'biro' tube..... or.... bin the outer wire and make your own connection from the centre pin to the brass insert in the plastic tube as shown in Colins photo.

If you have lost that, you need a new one!

It was a simple job.  I think you are possibly overthinking it. :) ???

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1 hour ago, NonMember said:

It doesn't matter in the slightest whether it's a "different design" of push, the horn system on the column needs one of those sprung biro things like Pete's photo and that is what the hole in the boss is for. YOU DO NOT PUT WIRES THROUGH THERE. No questions, no "if it's different"s, that's the simple, absolute bottom line that you need to accept. The horn push, whether it be an original Triumph type, Jeff's type, or your type, must connect between the top of the biro and the centre column. No ifs, buts, or options. That's the circuit. How you achieve it - whether by the push conducting to its retaining clip or a threaded hole in the opposite side of the boss or whatever - doesn't change that.

 

4 minutes ago, Jeffds1360 said:

Yes. Doug &Colin are right. Mine is a 13/60 and you need to shorten the wire, bin the rest and connect it to the the brass centre of the 'biro' tube..... or.... bin the outer wire and make your own connection from the centre pin to the brass insert in the plastic tube as shown in Colins photo.

If you have lost that, you need a new one!

It was a simple job.  I think you are possibly overthinking it. :) ???

 

2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

yes you have to solder the end of the button wire to the soldered end of the sprung biro  

if a bic biro fits thro the hole that will take the sprung pencil  you dont have  there are two lengths to suit different hubs 

you can see the biro/pencill has a rubbing end and a soldered end so it only fits rubbing brush to the slip ring

Picture of HORN BRUSH(142534)

 

 

yes i think ive been sold a pup (as my mother would say) by the club. i put the biro in the boss and if i put the old centre button in it works.trouble is when i put the wheel on the centre is too far out to make the earth with the spring clip.ive tried connecting one wire to the biro as pete said but nothing happens when i press the horn.

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1 hour ago, dougbgt6 said:

Dave,

What was there when you took it apart? Did the horn work previously? If it did there must have been a "biro" connector, what happened to it? Go find it and give it a try.

Doug

yes the biro connector works but only with the old horn button and that doesnt fit the new wheel. if i put the old button in the boss with the biro it works but as i said the old horn button is no good for the wheel. ive given up for tonight.might get one of those old horns you fasten to the side and press a rubber bulb lol.

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?... so the new horn push outer spring does not make the electrical connection to the new boss??

Maybe clean some paint off where it pushes in?

Surely the boss will earth when the main fitting nut is tightened?

:) sleep on it and let us know tomorrow how it goes.

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Just now, dave49 said:

yes the biro connector works but only with the old horn button and that doesnt fit the new wheel. if i put the old button in the boss with the biro it works but as i said the old horn button is no good for the wheel. ive given up for tonight.might get one of those old horns you fasten to the side and press a rubber bulb lol.

Ok so what you need to do is make a connection. New wheel fitted, get the horn pencil in position and earth it against the wheel rim; it should sound. That rules out any problems anywhere else.

The horn push centre can be linked to the top end of the pencil, most do it by wire and solder but feel free to experiment.

This leaves the outer rim to complete the circuit. Looking at your horn push you've got both cables already attached; solder the centre one to the top of the pencil, the other one to the outer edge of the steering boss, and that'll work.

 

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23 minutes ago, Jeffds1360 said:

?... so the new horn push outer spring does not make the electrical connection to the new boss??

Maybe clean some paint off where it pushes in?

Surely the boss will earth when the main fitting nut is tightened?

:) sleep on it and let us know tomorrow how it goes.

no.the new horn push fits the boss but doesnt work the biro.the old horn centre works the biro fine until i put the wheel on then it sits sort of outside the boss as the wheel pushes it away.ill start again tomorrow.thanks for all the advice guys.

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19 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Ok so what you need to do is make a connection. New wheel fitted, get the horn pencil in position and earth it against the wheel rim; it should sound. That rules out any problems anywhere else.

The horn push centre can be linked to the top end of the pencil, most do it by wire and solder but feel free to experiment.

This leaves the outer rim to complete the circuit. Looking at your horn push you've got both cables already attached; solder the centre one to the top of the pencil, the other one to the outer edge of the steering boss, and that'll work.

 

thanks colin.after trying everything else,i did what you suggested,centre soldered to biro and the other one to earth.it worked.so if i ever bump into you at a meet,i owe you a pint,cheers

DSCF1823.JPG

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2 minutes ago, Jeffds1360 said:

Good. What a difference a day makes :)

or a good nights sleep!

So...it is wired like my picture then?

more or  .it had two terminals on and i didnt know which was which.also didnt know what to do with second terminal as everything i tried seemed to set the horn off (much to the annoyance of my neighbours)finally earthed that to a screw and it worked so well happy now. ready to put it away for winter now and get a load of jobs done. back axle (oil leak) brakes  and steering bushes etc.hopefully then itll be ready for longer journeys.cheers

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18 minutes ago, dave49 said:

thanks colin.after trying everything else,i did what you suggested,centre soldered to biro and the other one to earth.it worked.so if i ever bump into you at a meet,i owe you a pint,cheers

I'll happily take it!!

A simple solution but from personal experience - been there!

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