Herald 13/60 Resto + Auto Conversion

[PeteH]

2 hours ago, Richeee said:

dushwasher

There was an issue with Phillips d washers some years back self combusting?.

Pete

[Josef]

Phew. The title made me worried it was the garage that had burned!

[Graham C]

Same here, been reading from the start over the last few days. Lovely work. Glad it is not your garage that caught fire and hopefully not too serious for your daughter and husband, and they can settle down after a second attempt at moving in to their new home.

All the best and keep the good work up.

Graham

[Richeee]

Hi Everyone.    Been quiet for a while.      Sorting out family stuff.    Other car stuff  and work has got in the way.

Also had a couple of holidays , One to Belgium and Luxembourg following the Battle of the Bulge and the last German offensive in the West in 1944.    And also a significant birthday holiday to Egypt, Cairo and a river cruise on the Nile.   A senior solo's holiday of the heady mix of , Deep heat, Support stockings and Imodium.

Now life is getting back to normal.  The garage only has a small bit of furniture from family house clearances left but today was able to re-commence on the Herald.

So the TV was switched on in the garage , heaters fired up.   Watching Elin Yakov's Triumph Restoration Channel on Youtube.   Rusty Beauties.

 

I was lastly working on the bonnet.   This had been cleco'd pinned together with the near side wing.   This had to be dismantled for storage but was able to quickly re pin together,

The idea is to pin the rest of the bonnet and check for alignment before welding.   

Going to have to use my spare parts car for a bonnet tube as mine appears a bit distorted.

The bonnet top and front panel are original but the outer wings and the inner and outer arches are new.   

The inner arches were purchased from the shop.   And had an e-coating or something similar.   madly I primered these in the early summer but this should have been an etch primer so set to work with a poly wheel and strip it off.   To be followed by several coats of Acid 8 etch.

With the near side pinned together it was time to attack the offside.

The same as with the other side the wing flange to the front panel was folded the wrong way and was too long.  

This was marked for cutting and folded and soon fitted.

Then re-pinned on the outer arch that i had trial fitted 6 months ago.

That was it for the first day in the garage working on the Herald for 6 months and guess what.......

 

To be continued with hopefully not such a large gap.

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

its looking good ,    often having a break revitalises the enthusiasm 

pete

 

[Richeee]

Another few hours working on the bonnet today. Pinning the offside wing and arches together.

As per yesterday had to strip the incorrect primer off the inner arch and apply acid etch.

Thats the bonnet basically pinned together.  Not going to weld yet.

Next job will be to remove the bonnet off my spares car and the support tube brace and compare it to my bent one.     Seeing if i have to make 1 out of 2.   

To be continued.

[Richeee]

Grabbed another couple of hours this afternoon to remove the bonnet off my parts car, dismantle the bonnet support tube and see what condition its in. 

To be honest came off fairly easily.  I realise it will take weeks or months to refit and allign properly but am thankful it came off ok.

Carried it into garage to begin stripping.

But first put a film on. Today was Star Trek 2. The wrath of Khan.

The brakets holding the splayed supports to the front panel seemed to have suffered most. One was snapped off and the other cracked.  These were kept and can be welded back on. Its fairly evident fron the old welds how they were alligned.

The rest came of the brackets and clamps gave up the ghost fairly quickly.    A few of the captive nuts broke away , but looking at the cost of new I will do with non captive nuts and bolts on the rebuild.

Eventually the support was free and very pleased. Not holed anywhere and rust is surface only. The bends etc seem symetrical side to side.

Compared  to my bent and twisted one.  The decent one at the rear.

Tried it in place on the bonnet, 1 side fitted with in reason with the inner arches but the other was twisting things a bit. But its ok. Nothing is welded.   Next job will be to clean , prime  and weld the brackets on. 

Then unpin the arches. My intention is to bolt the bonnet support centrally at the back. Loosely bolt to the two splayed front panel support brackets at the front corners and then reassemble the inner acches fettling and moving as i go.

A few millimetres here and there should soon have it sorted.   

Hopefully.

Good job more of these turned up today.

Will be needing them.   

To be continued.

[Richeee]

Unfortunately or fortunately my freelance work was cancelled at the last moment.  The company i was going in to cover for decided to use an internal person.  So I headed to the garage, placed a warm chicken pie in the heater and set to.

Todays job was to derust the bonnet tube , weld up the brackets that connect to the splayed supports on the front panel and prime.

So facemask was donned and started.

The brackets were welded and then rust convertor applied.

At the 3nd of the day took a flyer and applied primer over the framework and the two inner arches I has previously acid etched.

Next job will be to fit the support frame to the back of the bonnet. Fix to the two splayed supports to the front panels and nip up the bolts. Then i can reasseble the inner arches adjusting as i go my previous pinned toether sections to get the best fit using the support tube as the guide. 

 🤞 

Thats the idea anyway. 

To be continued.

 

 

[Richeee]

Had a good Christmas , and I must had been good because Santa delivered a mini 2 inch air grinder and long extension leads to connect up the trickle charger on my Spitfire. 

Grabbed a few hours in the garage today.   

Earlier from those good folks at leMans-R managed to pick up some support tube to arch brackets.   Mine i had managed to twist of the nuts and for the price of one picked up a handful.     These had been soaking in Evaporust and today the relevant needed were acid etch primed.

Carried on fitting the support tube and trial fitting the arches.

The starting point being the rear point of the bonnet followed by the two side brackets to the front panel.

Needed a bit of persuasion and folding to fit.

Refitted the nearside arches and seemed to fit Ok with the support tube.

Refitted the offside all with cleco's and clamps.  But did not fit right when compared to the nearside was standing proud a bit, and twisted.

Realised that possibly the inner arch could rotate 10mm forward compared to the outer inner arch.    This was easier to type than to do.    Happy couple of hours spent trying to realign and keep same radius.

Next time will bolt the arches to the support tube, but at this stage may refrain from welding up at the moment.  Not quite certain if all straight and aligned.   

What do you guys think.?

Contemplating at this stage just re-priming with the novol primer to preserve and will probably strategically pop rivet to support.   Then bolt the bulk head down to the chassis and fit the bonnet to the chassis to check for alignment before welding the bonnet.   This will mean also fitting the doors.  But as these have no skins at the moment removed these before sending the doors to be dipped,  will not be out of work.  have not fitted door skins before so that will be interesting.

To be continued..

 

[Josef]

I’d be inclined to agree that you should not weld up the bonnet till you’ve got the rest of the body ready to check it against. Looking good though! 
Skinning doors is relatively easy compared with some other bodywork jobs! If you’re using one of the skinning tools you just need to be aware that you can push it in to the face of the skin if you’re not careful with how it’s aligned. Also, check your skins carefully when you get them. The modern one I bought (Fitchett’s via the club shop) was not straight along the top, and the body line was not pressed all the way along the door…

[Richeee]

A very wet day down here in the South provided opportunity to progress a bit more.  

Decided to pop rivet the bonnet to create a firm structure , mount the bulkhead and trial fit.

Therefore i needed the pivot hinges and stays etc.  Believe there was some in the garage roof but decided to remove the ones off my parts car.

First off the removal of the old valence.   The rain held off till 12.

Even though it was very rusty and to be honest hardly needed unbolting , all the bolts i needed to undo came apart very smoothly.

Noticed the position of the hinge plates.   My parts car is i reckon original and I noticed that the single hole was at the top and the slots were downwards.  This probably how i will orientate when i commence align the bonnet but it may be reversed.

All the brackets and stays were stripped of paint and spent several hours in Evaporust before they were severely dosed in Vatcan rust convertor.

The bonnet was dismantled and then reassembled with pop rivets and the painted brackets were fitted to fix the inner arches to the support tube.  

The support brackets to the cones were tricky.  It would have been nice to tack them in place but pop riveting them was not easy.   But best way to go at present before the bonnet is aligned with the bulkhead and doors.  

Next to paint the hinges and stays with primer and to fix down the bulkhead.    For that i will need to get up in garage roof.   As there is a body fixing kit that came with the basket case up there..    Somewhere.   

To be continued........

[Pete Lewis]

well is progressing well 

the orientation of those drop links is always a good for pub banter

depends where you look  part list shows slots up WSM shows slots down 

if the pivot has a crush tube i guess it dosnt matter but if like my 64 Vit was a solid bush you cant tighten that on a slot or you cant pivot the bonnet, leave it loose enough to pivot and the first bump the bonnet drops down the slot 

so to me  single pivot hole to the bonnet bush ,,    slots to the dumb irons seems sensible 

Pete

Edited January 5 by Pete Lewis

[Richeee]

Today was going to install this

To this,

But had problems with the spacers that go into the hinge on the support tube.

First off i bolted down the bulkhead.

Read a lot of threads and went down several rabbit holes over which spacers metal or rubber where and how many. 

Ended up with 3 on 1 rubber washer. 1 on 2 and the front 2 by the main chassis rail on 1 horse shoe spacer and 1 rubber each.

You can see quite clearly here the alterations to the chassis to take the automatic gearbox.

The next job i thought was fixing the bonnet hinge plates and spacers to the chassis and bonnet.

But the spacers that I only took out 3 weeks ago would not fit.    Absolutely certain they are the right 2. But could be wrong. But i doubt so.

The other 2 spacers i removed earlier this week from the chassis brackets with the hinge plates. These are shorter and fit the brackets.

Certain the two for the bonnet tube are correct but wont fit. They came out simply enough ow with a couple of taps with a hammer but wont go back in. I have filed them, ground them and even tried to pull in with a bolt but not playing ball.    Will grind some more and clean out the hinge some more as well.

But a series of questions:

My understanding is that the bonnet rotates on this spacer in normal operation. There fore it should not be a tight fit? There should be copper grease or simlar on the outside of this spacer where it goes into the support tube.?

The spacer being sandwiched on its ends by the slotted hinge plates and washers. The push pull stay being there as well. The spacer tube does not rotate. But the bonnet does on it?

Not sure why they dont want to go back in. But have ordered a 16mm drill bit to ease the holes in the end of the bonnet tube..

To be continued

 

  

[Richeee]

Ignore me.

Solved the above.

Eureka.  I was using the wrong spacers.      Had a brainwave and went running out to the garage to check onother bag of bits.    

Whats the point of using sealed bags and writing on them what they are if you dont look at them. 

Doohhhhhhh.

[Richeee]

Sorted.

Hiding in plain siight.

 

 

 

 

[Richeee]

Bit more on the Herald bonnet today. Fitted hinge plates to front brackets. Bonnet restraints and push pull stays.

 

Then with a struggle and pieces of polystyrene manhandeled the bonnet into place. (Note to self. Dont do it on own again.)

But quite a large gap to the bulkhead.

No problems i thought. Just adjust back in.  So did this to the maximum i could by screwing in the adjusters and letting the pivot bolts down to the bottom so when pulled in get maximum extension rearwards.

This mafe it better. But still 20mm gap.

But really nice to see the bonnent on the car. If only for a breif while.

On the rhs the exrension to the outer arch clashes with the bulkhead and will need trimming.

And at present the rear of the arches left and right also clash with the bulkhead and will need attention

Overall quite pleased.  With the bonnet on the car can take each wheel arch off 1 at a time trim and put back on. 

Then have to see how to get the bonnet back 15mm or so.

1 step at a time. 

To be continued

 

 

 

Edited January 8 by Richeee

[johny]

A large bonnet to bulkhead gap is very common and once the bonnet adjustment is used up I think moving the body tub forward is the only remedy left😞

[Steve P]

Bulkhead is a fixed position with the two bolts on the front no?. Unless you tilt it forward.

S

[Richeee]

The bulkhead is bolted down and fitted quite nicely.    I could elongate holes and move forward.  I might also , which at this stage is my preferred choice, is to make longer hinge plates.    But longer hinge plates will take the bonnet front lower.    But that can be got around if i make curved hinge plates to go around the front cross tube. 

A few mm here and there should get it down to the 8mm as stated in the Herald training instructions.

 

 

[johny]

If the bonnet goes back too far wont it look funny to the valance?

[Richeee]

It might do.

My car is a basket case never been seen together in 20 years. My brother purchased in pieces and i purchased off him.    The chassis looked fairly good and orginal.   No welding to speak of. The bonnet tub and bulkhead all being loose. Eventually i had time to start the restoration. 

The idea is to bolt it all together dry. Bulkhead, doors, tub, bonnet , valences front and rear. The front and rear valences will be new.  Rear wings and arches new. Front wings and inner outer arches all new. Door skins new. Not sure if anything will line up, tbh.  Then when eventually happy remove everything to restore the chassis and running gear before re fitting the body work. Of course theres the auto gearbox and 1500 engine to complicate things as well.

Been advised the bulkhead bolted to the chassis is the starting point. And bar running a drill up the chassis monting holes it fitted pretty well. The font bulkhead nuts are captive. 

At this stage going to try and leave bulkhead in situ as the datum and work away from this front and back.  The front valence fixs behind the overiders and at the end of the front coss tube and i think a couple of brackets up to the front chassis. And will have some play, i hope.

It may be that nothing lines up and i end up moving everything forward and dack wards and up and down. But my plan at present is to use the bulkhead as a datum.   

[Colin Lindsay]

There is quite a lot of adjustment, and so forgiveness, in the Herald parts, and the front valence will cover any number of minor sins; in my 1200 restoration however if I bolt the bulkhead to the chassis at the front outriggers, the holes in the side rails are off by a good half inch. If I bolt by the side rails the front outriggers are off. What I did there was to photograph and measure other assembled Heralds, then position mine where I thought it looked the same - this proved the front outriggers are correct, and the holes in the side rails can be adjusted as required. Before making anything permanent I'll fit the rear tub and see how that lines up with its' own mounting points. 

[Gary Flinn]

These Body Build notes are worth a read and might help?

Getting a decent Bonnet fit can be a nightmare and compromises may have to be made I'm afraid if the bonnets had extensive repairs

I made slightly longer hinge plates out of Stainless steel when rebuilding my old Vitesse, I also tilted the front bulkhead forwards using additional spacer washers under the rear most front bulkhead body mounts, it definitely helped.

Keep at it.

Gary 

 

Triumph Service Training Notes Herald Body.pdf

Edited January 9 by Gary Flinn

[Richeee]

Two mentions now of tilting the bulkhead.

At present my bulkhead has 2 shims ( 1 metal and 1 rubber at front) tapering to 1 at the back.  Therefor tilting the bulkhead backwards and making worse.   That was as it naturally wanted to sit. 

Guess what im doing next......

Playing repacking the bulkhead.  

After finishing ironing of course.   

 

[Gary Flinn]

10 minutes ago, Richeee said:

Two mentions now of tilting the bulkhead.

At present my bulkhead has 2 shims ( 1 metal and 1 rubber at front) tapering to 1 at the back.  Therefor tilting the bulkhead backwards and making worse.   That was as it naturally wanted to sit. 

Guess what im doing next......

Playing repacking the bulkhead.  

After finishing ironing of course.   

 

Another reason I tilted the front bulkhead slightly was to stop the door Quarterlights catching the 'A' Posts, you may have similar issues when you re-fit the doors?

Tilting forwards gives you a bit more adjustment on the doors to prevent catching

Gary