Herald 13/60 Resto + Auto Conversion

[Richeee]

To be honest we are really lucky to have the great suppliers that we do have.  Triumph panels and spares are plentiful and there are a number of clubs as well.    We can discuss and get help.   

Bordfuncker suggested / recommended at the end of last week that I obtained some rear and quarter valances and trial fit.   The club was out of stock, but managed to reassess and today was trial fitting brand new panels.   Last time i asked a question re part numbers.  I think / understand that the only difference is the lack of bumper retaining flange on the valances which can be obtained any way.  I ordered Sunday and delivered Tuesday.  If i had been looking for something for a rare Italian or something I would have had no chance.   So Thank you to The Triumph community.  

First job today was sort out and bag up my newly delivered UNF nuts , bolts , washers etc.    I had depleted my stocks from my Land rover 2a restoration.  And they were in a bit of a mess.

Next job was to turn the rear tub the right way up,

Then Cleko the rear wing temporarily back on.

The problem i had previously was the rear wing not being deep enough at the rear light unit.   This could cause problems, I wondered , when i fitted the rear and 1/4 valances causing a gap between the wing and side valance.??

Anyway trimmed a bit of return away that should have gone under the rear light and started to trial fir the valances.  The rear light recess causing a gap between the 1/4 valence and the wing.

The valances all came from Paddocks, and needed some trimming and fettling.   Perhaps a bit more than i would have hoped, but hey   they are available and delivered to my door in 2 days so tbh No complaints.

More fettling.   On and off 10 times at least.

More masking tape on cuts on my fingers.

There was still a gap between the wing and the valance.  But getting better.

So the option was as I thought all along was to trim the bottom of the light unit.    To a line level with the wing.

Then put the valances on yet again.  

Getting better.    I know it will work and will all line up.         The valances although from the same source still have a different protrusion between the 1/4 and the rear.    But am happier and the over rider will hide the transition. 

Ran out of time and my poor sliced hands needed a rest.     But one last photo of the Tub convinced me I was getting there.      Tread plates done.   Front flange to fit to the tub repaired.   Several other holes patched.    New inner rear arch welded in , and the rear wing about to be welded in and the valances will fit.

Tomorrow is not welding the rear wing on , now i'm happy.    Its actually welding the front crossmember to my sons Micra.     An advisory on the MOT,   and a service.  Oh well.

To be continued..........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Badwolf]

Coming along nicely. Shame about the fingers. Always keep a box of sticking plasters in the garage, if using those cut to size strips, precut a mixture of sizes to prevent bleeding everywhere while you find the scissors!

[Richeee]

Cannot really believe it has been 4 months since I last posted.     Life has been getting in the way.   Not of working on the car although this has been a bit slower but work , holidays , work on my other cars and the fact also that my son is back living at home with me after a traffic accident left him with a broken leg and arm after he was rear ended by an HGV on the motorway outside Reading, resulting in the Micra i welded the crossmember on being converted by the fire brigade into a convertible and the air ambulance being called out. 

Anyway back to Herald matters and i will try to update where have got to.

Finished off last time with myriad cuts to my fingers trial fittings rear wing and valances , because I was not happy with fit of wing around the rear light bracketry.  

This was when I got distracted with my sons Micra needing welding on an advisory, and a service. 

This was done and started to weld the wing on.

But then was distracted with my MG-F failing its MOt with the mot tester poking his screwdriver through the bottom wishbone.  Oh well.   The wishbone replacement on the mgf requires the subframe to be lowered with 20 year old bolts needing to be extracted.

After this little interlude it was back to the herald.  And more wing welding.  

The photos don't seem to tell the full story, but this was the first time i had ever replace inner arch's and entire wing. The welding inside the boot for the connection between the wing bottom and top was an absolute pain.    It will need a lot of hours work with finger files and dremel before I would dare post photos.............

 

 

Unfortunately when i finished i was left with a minor depreesion in the wing just at the beginning and end of the arch.   You might spot on next photo.

 

This will have to be sorted at the painting stage.

This had taken myself up to mid sept.

Time now for the other rear wing. Not as bad and the inner arch would not need replacing but the outer inner did need replacing.    So Paddocks for the wing and Rimmer for the arch which again laps over the inner arch.

At this point my compressor packs up, the non return valve seemed to have packed up, along with the head gaskets.   Oh well time wasted or rather invested in this.

Head gaskets not available from Machine Mart , seems mine is now obsolete, so spend ages looking through google images after typing in the model number until able to locate an image and thereby a website of a supplier.  Eventually fixed and now all working again.

Back to Herald and the rest of the wing was cut out and rust convertor applied.

Other cars got in the way and it was time for a belt change on an old VW polo I purchased as a run around to work on sites.

TBH the belts were not too bad, but as the car had only done 47,000 in 21 years it was age rather than mileage that determined the change.

Then followed a holiday to see daughter in Newcastle and the opening of the Rugby world cup followed by a grab a granny coach tour to the Orkneys to see the archaeology. 

Back to the Herald and trial fitting of the wing and inner arch began.   Hopefully easier this time as it was no longer the first I had ever done. Lets see if I had learnt anything.

Once i was happy it was time to flip the body again.

 

Again had difficulty around the rear light brackets but in a different way.   But soon sorted with a hammer and fine adjustment.

At this point my son intervened and there was a 3 week gap of myself playing nurse, but his sister has come to my aid and flown down from Newcastle to Southern Wiltshire to help.

So work was able to commence at odd times. The inner arch being finally clamped into place and the wing removed again to aid with with welded on the inner to outer wing.

The first part of the dipping process had left paint and debris in the harder to reach areas and subsequent protective primer sprayed could not get into all areas and as i progress round the car I am mindful to clean original joints with a Sharpe blade or knife, blow out any debris and rust convert and try to dribble in primer.  

With the rear wings removed and the body upside down am able to blow out and wire brush the the upper wing capping's, rear of door posts and the panel behind the hood storage area, and coat in rust convertor.

Well done any body who has made the end of this update and is still awake.       That's me up to date.

To be continued.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Josef]

8 hours ago, Richeee said:

the opening of the Rugby world cup

I was there too! Had slightly less of a journey to get there than you did though. 
 

Nice to see the progress. 

[Colin Lindsay]

Lovely work... I have it all ahead of me if I could get the impetus to start. How did the rear lower wing end up, the gap along the rear valence? You can usually hide all the other adjustments and misalignments behind the rear overriders but that bit is very visible.

[Richeee]

9 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

 How did the rear lower wing end up, the gap along the rear valence? You can usually hide all the other adjustments and misalignments behind the rear overriders but that bit is very visible.

Hi.    The main problem was that the new wing seemed to be 10mm shorter in height than the original at its junction with rhe rear light.

This then meant that the junction of side and rear valance did not form a uniform butt to the underside of the wing.

So to resolve i cut the bottom of the light bracket by 10mm to allow it to fit better.

Time will tell over this remedy but in trial fitting the rear valences appeared to be the way forward.

[Bordfunker]

Great progress there, though that boot corner looks a list suspect!

Karl

[Richeee]

Aye.   

Just got to cut bits out of this to repair and replace the well.

Purchased from a guy who was going to replace his floor and never got round to it. Both corners and well need replacing.    Not going to replace the whole panel as most is ok and going to retain as much as possible for rigidity and location. 

 

[Josef]

From the looks of your damage, it’d be easier to make something yourself than try and make the very non original shape repro floor bits fit. You only need a scaffold pole or something similar to make the bends around for the bottom of the boot corners. Make the two side and leave a triangle to fill in where they meet, bash a bit of a dish into a bit of metal and cut out the leftover triangle shape from that. There’s photos on my Herald thread from about a year ago when I did the same repair. 

[Richeee]

Thanks,  

Found it , reading and learning more stuff.

Ta.

[Richeee]

Managed to grab a few hours in garage today, working on the offside rear new wing.    First off ground down and seam sealed the weld of the new inner wing to outer around the arch.

After that punched holes in the new wing.    Followed by then drilling them bigger as in the other wing found out that needed the holes to be lager to obtain a decent plug weld. (Possibly my welding skills and heat levels)

The upper wing has a flange on it that the bottom wing fixes to. On the inside of this flange is a downstand that that was preventing the new lower wing from having full movement inwards if required for allignment.    So ground this off.

Painted the rear deck internal and the inside of the upper rear wing, with Novol weld through primer. I had rust converted these aras as a result of not being sprayed because of poor access at stripping time.  Also painted the rear wing and inner arch i had been working on. 

When dried a bit i retrial fixed into place.

At the rear corner it was a much better fit than the nearside with the light bracket mounting which i had to adapt.    Believe it wont be necessary to shorten this one but again time will tell.    

Next job , lots of plug welding and fit that wing.

To be continued:

 

[Bordfunker]

I’ve got the same punch as you have, and found out the hard way that you need to crank up the power quite a bit on the welder to get good penetration with a plug weld.

Which is fine when you know that, but does mean you end up putting more heat into the panel than you want to, and means having to cool everything with an airline after each weld.

Great progress on the tub, it’s starting to look whole again.

Karl

[Richeee]

Managed to grab a bit of time to continue with the welding of the wing.

Started on the connection just behind the B post and the connection with the floor and inner arch.

The welding will do for present. But i can certainly see time being spent with flap wheels etc before the final painting stages.

Tried to form the curved return to the bottom of the inner arch.

Not got a photo of the next bit but it was trimmed and ground and then finally some seam sealer and primer. 

To be continued probably with welding the overlap of the outer inner arch to the inner arch, but lots more to continue all round the wing.

[Richeee]

Hi.

Managed to grab a few hours in garage today.  Still more welding on the rear wing. 

First off plug and them decided to seam weld the rear outer inner arch.

A bad welding day today. Just did not want to go right.   So only photos after grinding , seam sealing and primer are allowed for public viewing.

Then the front of wing to b post.

 

Next to be done will be the rear lower wing to boot floor. The rear upstand and the lovly contorted welding of the upper and lower wing. But fill first fit new tip , rearrange earth and tinker with welder.

Next.

To be expected the primer applied after dipping is soaking up some water from aotmosphere and very minor surface rust appearing. It will all be wired wheeled down and treated with epoxy mastic again later anyway.

 

As normal to be continued....

 

[Richeee]

Back to the garage again.  This time to weld the joint between the boot side and bottom of wing. Then the connection with the rear light bracket and rear of the wing.

The side of the boot floor was very thin and began at first to chase holes and thought of replacing the boot side, but eventually managed to weld. Originally this would have been spotted welded but i ended up continuous welding a rough joint.

My daughters partner took some photos of me at work.   

At the rear where it connected to the light bracket i had a while ago pondered wether i would have to make some ajustments as the wing was a bit short in height. Had altered the off side but had decided to leave the near side till the wing was on.

As it turned out had to cut and lower the light bracket as the valance i trial fitted had too much of a gap to my liking.

So the left of this light bracket is now level with the wing.

The lhs may well need altering when i fit the valances again.

Getting there.

Next job will be to raise the tub as high as possible on the band stands to get under neath and weld the joint between upper and lower wing. 

On the other side i made holes in the upper wing flange to weld to the lower flange.    But this gave me a very restricted space to weld in. 

This time i have puched holes in the lower wing. With the tub now inverted will have more room for the welding torch.  Even though the tub will be above me.  Or so thats the plan..................

To be continued....

 

[mark powell]

Garador Mk111C garage door...  So glad I don't have to replace the cables or springs any more!

 Nice work, by the way!

[Richeee]

The springs and cables have be fine for a while, but now you have said that are bound to go.  Grabbing hold of the end of the cable with a pair of mole grips and trying to locate on the end of the little hook is not a job i wish to do soon.

One day will upgrade to roller doors which hopefully will fit better and be less drafty.

[Pete Lewis]

2 hours ago, mark powell said:

Garador Mk111C garage door

yes the springs inside the top box take a bit of pulling i repaired with stronger cables from BQ but its gone and a timber up over 

has proven so much warmer no condensation etc  

but has the wind up spring which is another cause for extreme care if you need to rewind for any reason   ...touch wood  its all fine 

but you know they listen and try to catch you out , 

garage doors good for the sticky plaster and bludgened fingers if you dont  respect a bit of homework before you undo anything 

Pete

[mark powell]

As a retired garage door 'technician', I am fortunate not to have sustained any really serious injuries... There are some evil mechanical systems out there!

 

[PeteH]

"Garador" where, Possibly still are?, based in Yeovil. Started as I understand, as an "offshoot" of Westland Helicopter`s. Keep up the welding, Your`s is neater than some of mine. Practice is the key factor. Seam sealer, can hide a multitude of ugly, if strong, welds!!.

Pete

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, PeteH said:

"Garador" where, Possibly still are?, based in Yeovil. Started as I understand, as an "offshoot" of Westland Helicopter`s

When my dad had a garage added to our house where I grew up, in about 1974, the door was explicitly marked "Westland Garador". I remember him challenging the three of us boys to find the house's connection with helicopters.

[Richeee]

Hi. Back to the garage as a wet day and the hedge cuttings can wait.

Raised the tub on the stands as far asI could so i could just sit underneath and weld the upper and lower wings together.

Access was still bad but managed to weld through the pre punched holes in the flange of the upper wing to the lower wing. Will need trimming and grinding, but will wait till i flip the tub again.

Now moved on to the rear wheel well and the two rear mounting plates whilst the tub was upside down. 

With a spot weld drill started to drill out the well as badly holed and thin metal about to give up the ghost.  Have a new well to go in.

To be continued.

 

[Richeee]

Just an hours work over the last few days. But did managed to remove the old wheel well.

Wafer thin and a myriad of holes.

With it removed it does give excellent access to the inderside of the rear deck.  Which when dip stripped was I believe not fully accessible for primer.  I had a go at derusting when i replaced the wings, but looking at it a better job is required.   I will be able to sit under the tub with my head poking out through the hole. So another wire brush and some protection.

Supposed to be a good forcast for garage work at the weekend.  Rain for 2 days.   So plenty of work and 2 rear mounts to sort out.

 

To be continued. 

[Richeee]

Just a quick update. 

Perfect garage day as rain beating across where i live.  

Started on the near side mount. Body upside down. Cutting out and preparing a patch.

In hindsight perhaps i should had done one larger patch, but i did a series of smaller ones.

The end result im quite happy with.

The off side necessitated a bigger patch from the beginning.     The old was cut / drilled / bashed away and some red zinc primer brushed on as per the other  side.

A panel was made up and welded in. Being plug welded to the thick supporting plate. 

Then seam sealed and primer.   Not as pretty as the other side and towards the rear the new plate curves slightly upwards ( downwards in this photo) to the light bracket.  As i was welding to the support plate forgot it curves.   But its away from the rear outigger as the two locating holes are correct.

Will need a bit more tidying up later.

To be continued.

 

[Richeee]

Another good weather day for garage work yesterday.

 

Previously during the week i had run out of gas, it seems my local stockist had stopped stocking hobbyweld and my next supplier did not have the correct size so a trip to Poole and back was required.

 

The wheel well was next and is the last major bit to be done to the rear tub at this stage. In the garage roof got a reproduction panel including wheel well.

So started drilling out the spot welds.     Got it wrong.    Drilled out the alternative side to the original floor. So instead of the original 50 odd plug welds now had over 100. My own blonde moment.

Finally got it fitted. 

The rest of the boot floor panel minus the well is surplus to requirements. Its not as good as the orignal style pressing, and is 4 panels welded to make 1.    But if somebody wants to collect they are more than welcome.  Just message me. Swap for a bottle of supermarket red.

All bar some grinding down of some exuberant welding and fitting of one of the seat belt nut/plate i have forgotten to transfer over from the inner rear arch, the rear tub is solid and repaired.

Do have a problem however.  The Herald rear lower wings generally are, at the B post, recessed from the upper wing and as they get to the rear arch they become level with the upper wing to the rear of the car.

This i have fairly well replicated on the the offside.   

Nearside however its a bit more erractic.

Going from 2mm at front to 4mm. And a bit of a depression in the wing. Bit of a pain.   But a job for the body shop when its prepped and sprayed.   2mm of filler is not the end of the world.  Not my intention to take wing off again. Missed it when welding the wing in.    Maybe distortion from heat as well.

So with the tub repaired , its now going to have epoxy primer applied as a protection. The Novol primer is only a temp protection and showing signs of slight oranging.     It will be rotary wired brushed to clean, and  Rustbuster 121 and 421 ordered.     The 121 is going on the base and they advise this before seam sealer.  The rest of the tub will recieve 421.

After this it will be temporarily located on the chassis.   

The bulkhead already is repaired and altered to take the automatic gearbox, this will also recieve epoxy primer. 

Then the work on the bonnet can hopefully commence. The bonnet top and front panel are ok. But will require 2 new wings and arches.

To be continued.