Jeffds1360 Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 That ship fire just shows how electric cars can be so dangerous!! Maybe cause a re-think??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 Is there evidence of that being the source of the fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffds1360 Posted February 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 I do not think so John, forensics not been in yet but it may either have just spread to the cars or possibly one of them could have been the source. It will be interesting to find out. Either way, the extinguish-ability of the batteries is of concern! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 47 minutes ago, Jeffds1360 said: That ship fire just shows how electric cars can be so dangerous!! Maybe cause a re-think??? Better to stick with Petrol or diesel. Much safer.🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qu1ckn1ck Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 "A salvage team from SMIT is en route to the retreive the abandoned M/V Felicity Ace, which continues to burn near the Azores. BERLIN/LISBON, Feb 18 (Reuters) – A ship carrying around 4,000 vehicles, including Porsches, Audis and Bentleys, that caught fire near the coast of the Azores will be towed to another European country or the Bahamas, the captain of the nearest port told Reuters on Friday. Lithium-ion batteries in the electric cars on board the vehicle carrier Felicity Ace have caught fire and the blaze requires specialist equipment to extinguish, captain Joao Mendes Cabecas of the port of Hortas said. It was not clear whether the batteries first sparked the fire." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishmosh Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 It’s a good job a petrol tanker is so safe 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 LFP cells as used in a lot of EV's are inherently safe. They do not burst into flames when abused. I have seen many abused. Smoke stinks!🤢 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 In Germany, firefighters have developed a technique to extinguish EV fires. They dunk it in a shipping container full of water! So perhaps they should let the ship sink before salvaging it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, JohnD said: In Germany, firefighters have developed a technique to extinguish EV fires. They dunk it in a shipping container full of water! So perhaps they should let the ship sink before salvaging it. That Swedish chick will be angry with you.🤨 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 It’s the same "issue" that dogged the Boeing Dreamliner, and before that some i-phones. Allegedly the Batteries can have a tendency to spontaneous combustion under certain circumstances. OR if they catch fire from an external source. Either way, the conflagration is exceptionally fierce and they need specialist fire suppression. There will be a few "insurers" with twitchy nether regions, Best estimate has lot`s of Zero`s at the end of it!. All the crew got off safely.Perhaps these tree huggers will realise that EV is not the best option. Smoke gray Audi anybody? There will be a few US yuppies that are going to be crying in their G&T's or Crystal champas, poor things they are going to keep their present car another year and be outdone by neighbours with their new cars.🤣 Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, PeteH said: It’s the same "issue" that dogged the Boeing Dreamliner, and before that some i-phones. Allegedly the Batteries can have a tendency to spontaneous combustion under certain circumstances. OR if they catch fire from an external source. Either way, the conflagration is exceptionally fierce and they need specialist fire suppression. There will be a few "insurers" with twitchy nether regions, Best estimate has lot`s of Zero`s at the end of it!. All the crew got off safely.Perhaps these tree huggers will realise that EV is not the best option. Smoke gray Audi anybody? There will be a few US yuppies that are going to be crying in their G&T's or Crystal champas, poor things they are going to keep their present car another year and be outdone by neighbours with their new cars.🤣 Pete LFP EV cells do not " have a tendency to spontaneous combustion under certain circumstances". I have seen EV cells with holes drilled thru them - they do not catch fire. Does not happen. I work with LFP cells. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 From Wiki:- Li-ion batteries have a high energy density, no memory effect (other than LFP cells)[10] and low self-discharge. Cells can be manufactured to either prioritize energy or power density.[11] They can however be a safety hazard since they contain flammable electrolytes and if damaged or incorrectly charged can lead to explosions and fires. Later/newer, batteries may be different?. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 LFP (Li Fe PO4) cells are used in most EV's as they are a much safer technology. The company I work for installs up to 287kWhr batteries on commercial vehicles. They are safe. If you touch the 800VDC batteries you would just get a unpleasant Nip. Not electrocution. Unlike touching the same voltage at British Rail.😱 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 However it happens, the batteries do seem to burn. So does petrol, but much more easily. Either way we've got a power source that needs care. I don't intend to mess about with either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, SpitFire6 said: LFP (Li Fe PO4) cells are used in most EV's as they are a much safer technology. The company I work for installs up to 287kWhr batteries on commercial vehicles. They are safe. If you touch the 800VDC batteries you would just get a unpleasant Nip. Not electrocution. Unlike touching the same voltage at British Rail.😱 Interesting what you say. But it would appear from what is currently being posted online, that the difficulties being experienced with fire control are primarily on the deck which contains the cars, and where it is alleged the conflagration has it`s seat?. Suggesting the "fuel" source IS the battery compostion. This, is an interesting "read". Which might have some bearing?:- Lithium reacts with water easily, but with noticeably less vigor than other alkali metals. The reaction forms hydrogen gas and lithium hydroxide.[5] When placed over a flame, lithium compounds give off a striking crimson color, but when the metal burns strongly, the flame becomes a brilliant silver. Lithium will ignite and burn in oxygen when exposed to water or water vapor. In moist air, lithium rapidly tarnishes to form a black coating of lithium hydroxide (LiOH and LiOH·H2O), lithium nitride (Li3N) and lithium carbonate (Li2CO3, the result of a secondary reaction between LiOH and CO2).[42] Lithium is one of the few metals that react with nitrogen gas.[91][92] Because of its reactivity with water, and especially nitrogen, lithium metal is usually stored in a hydrocarbon sealant, often petroleum jelly. Although the heavier alkali metals can be stored under mineral oil, lithium is not dense enough to fully submerge itself in these liquids.[18] Lithium has a diagonal relationship with magnesium, an element of similar atomic and ionic radius. Chemical resemblances between the two metals include the formation of a nitride by reaction with N2, the formation of an oxide (Li2O) and peroxide (Li2O2) when burnt in O2, salts with similar solubilities, and thermal instability of the carbonates and nitrides.[42][93] The metal reacts with hydrogen gas at high temperatures to produce lithium hydride (LiH).[94] Lithium forms a variety of binary and ternary materials by direct reaction with the main group elements. These Zintl phases, although highly covalent, can be viewed as salts of polyatomic anions such as Si44-, P73-, and Te52-. With graphite, lithium forms a variety of intercalation compounds.[93] It dissolves in ammonia (and amines) to give [Li(NH3)4]+ and the solvated electron.[93] Credit Wiki. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 Knowledge vs Internet. I'm bowing out.😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, SpitFire6 said: Knowledge vs Internet. I'm bowing out.😎 To be fair. I was more concerned with the fact that there was fire at sea. And went looking at probable cause, as did several of the guys I interact with in the marine industry. It`s one of those things that can put the fear into you. I got involved with one back in the 70`s. Bouncing about in the North Sea in a gale not far short of yeterdays, and trying to suppress a generator room fire. No power and only emegency lighting, (more glow from the fire!). Tends to concentrate the mind. When it was done with, and we got back under way. All we got from the other crew/ratings was. "we had no radio/T--V and missed the Scottish Cup final"!. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 A fire on board a ship with several hundred cars, surely there could be many causes for the start. Once going I would have thought there were many compounds/components that would cause it to spread - all the plastics, tyres . . .Are all the cars on board EVs? A few petrol ones with a few litres of petrol in the tanks would give the fire a boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 "Experts on the scene are reporting that everything above the waterline has now burnt." https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/photos-fire-ravaged-felicity-ace-adrift-off-the-azores Certainly looks like it! I fear that few salvagers will want to look for anything there, and that it will be a most complex ship breaking project, given all the exotic materials on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 This is among the places where it will most likely end up, I suspect. https://shipbreakingplatform.org/our-work/the-problem/india/ That is assuming the volume of water currently being used does not cause capsize/sinking!. H&SE, is virtually unknown, Huge numbers of ships, ( some I even Sailed on/in) have ended here. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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