Colin Lindsay Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 Another hair-tearing afternoon in the garage so I'll throw this one open to debate. Two Herald convertibles, 1200 and 13/60 with 11-leaf rear springs. I refurbished both by splitting, cleaning the leaves, replacing the buttons with standard rubber versions and reassembling with new bolts, crush tubes and nuts. The 1200 spring went on the bare chassis and was incredibly strong, so that when the half shafts were attached the axles were lying on the chassis - I had to put protective pads between the chassis and the shafts to help the paintwork. If rolled the axles scrape on the chassis rails, they're being pressed down so hard. If unbolted from the diff the spring sits up alarmingly. I reckoned it will lift with the weight of the tub so left it alone for now. I've just finished the 13/60 spring and replaced that but this car has the tub still on, however the halfshafts are again tight to the main rails and the shocks are at full stretch. There's no engine or gearbox but with 'Er Indoors standing in the area of the rear seat inside the bare tub it still doesn't lift off the rails. If I rock the car it practically bounces. The only deviation from standard is to use grease-impregnated tape at either end as protective 'gaiters', just one layer lightly wrapped and held in place with cable ties. Surely this wouldn't be enough to tighten the spring so much, or is it preventing the leaves from settling? I used it on other cars, including the Gt6, and had no problems there at all. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 I have never tried this Colin, but some of us used to reverse the top three leaves in order to lower the rear of the early Vitesses. All new bits will 'Stack up' and increase the ride height. I cannot remember if any spacers are present. A tell tale sign would be loads of room on the studs above the nuts that clamp the spring in the centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Wagger said: I have never tried this Colin, but some of us used to reverse the top three leaves in order to lower the rear of the early Vitesses. All new bits will 'Stack up' and increase the ride height. I cannot remember if any spacers are present. A tell tale sign would be loads of room on the studs above the nuts that clamp the spring in the centre. I'm hoping it will settle down with time; at present it's much too strong so I've slackened off all the other bushes in the hope that they're not holding it up artificially - if the torque setting should be completed with the car on the ground then I'd rather it was properly on the ground first. One of the halfshafts appears to have loosened up already and can be turned by hand but the other one is so tight you'd think the handbrake was on. I'll give it a good shake everytime I pass for the next day or so and see if that helps... :. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 25 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: I'm hoping it will settle down with time; at present it's much too strong so I've slackened off all the other bushes in the hope that they're not holding it up artificially - if the torque setting should be completed with the car on the ground then I'd rather it was properly on the ground first. One of the halfshafts appears to have loosened up already and can be turned by hand but the other one is so tight you'd think the handbrake was on. I'll give it a good shake everytime I pass for the next day or so and see if that helps... :. If you are able to roll the car a metre back and forward with some weight on it, it should settle. I found this really scary when I jacked up my first Vitesse and it just sat high when I lowered the jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Cooper Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 5 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: The only deviation from standard is to use grease-impregnated tape at either end as protective 'gaiters', just one layer lightly wrapped and held in place with cable ties. Surely this wouldn't be enough to tighten the spring so much, or is it preventing the leaves from settling? I did this one my Spitfire's spring 30 years ago. When I restored the car 5 years ago I cut it all off to check the spring and It was like new so I put a new covering on. On neither occasion did it have even the slightest effect on the ride hight or the strength of the spring, I'm positive. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 Colin, I can't see how disassembly, cleaning and reassembly will make this difference, unless you made a mistake, twice. There are several threads on here where Wagger's solution was, the solution. Get bodies in the back and give them a push. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 20, 2022 Report Share Posted February 20, 2022 Couple of bags of sand/gravel in the boot area and push back and forth? see if it settles?. SWMBO`s Vittese, back in the 80`s permanently had 1cwt of dry sand bagged up in the forr`d end of the boot. Improved the ride on her daily "commute", (Mrs Lead-foot). Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2022 Thanks guys, I'm hoping time will tell and it'll settle down. I had thought it would happen almost immediately; we've now had two people standing in the rear tub with little improvement if any. All the bush bolts have been loosened again to allow free movement; it's funny that I have a ramp which gives perfect access but the final torquing up has to be with the car on the ground so there I am again wriggling in under it. I can't try fore-and-aft movement as there are no front wheels... I'll leave it until after the front is painted when I can get four wheels on, and see what improves after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted February 20, 2022 Report Share Posted February 20, 2022 9 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: Thanks guys, I'm hoping time will tell and it'll settle down. I had thought it would happen almost immediately; we've now had two people standing in the rear tub with little improvement if any. All the bush bolts have been loosened again to allow free movement; it's funny that I have a ramp which gives perfect access but the final torquing up has to be with the car on the ground so there I am again wriggling in under it. I can't try fore-and-aft movement as there are no front wheels... I'll leave it until after the front is painted when I can get four wheels on, and see what improves after that. Dunno if the rear wheels on on or off Colin, but try to place a jack under the rear trunnions, one at a time an lift the tyre clear of the ground, You may have to do each side several times each. Probably easier to trolley jack the front and roll it. I am sure that is all that it needs. Beware of the weather, again (to the power of 5 this Winter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 Going to have a fun day clearing drains and gutters, the torrential rain yesterday showed which need serious cleaning out - we had a waterfall over the front door... but... when I make it to the garage (I doubt the painters will be collecting the Herald today as there's still quite a bit of wind) I'm going to put the front of the car on a four wheeled dolly I use, then jack the rears up on the ramp with the wheels removed and adjust / tighten the bushes etc accordingly. What worried me was that the 1200 convertible - albeit a bare chassis - has been on all four wheels for months now and the spring is still too strong so it barely rolls. I don't want to have to dismantle anything once it's all nicely fitted and replaced, hence the post in case I've missed something obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 13 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: Going to have a fun day clearing drains and gutters, the torrential rain yesterday showed which need serious cleaning out - we had a waterfall over the front door... but... when I make it to the garage (I doubt the painters will be collecting the Herald today as there's still quite a bit of wind) I'm going to put the front of the car on a four wheeled dolly I use, then jack the rears up on the ramp with the wheels removed and adjust / tighten the bushes etc accordingly. What worried me was that the 1200 convertible - albeit a bare chassis - has been on all four wheels for months now and the spring is still too strong so it barely rolls. I don't want to have to dismantle anything once it's all nicely fitted and replaced, hence the post in case I've missed something obvious. The spring will not be any stronger, it simply can't be. But the height may have increased with the new buttons and that may have tensioned the spring. (think about the front coil springs. when free they are about 150lb/inch. But if compressed by 2" to fit the shocks, there is 300lb of tension stored) So until you have weight to overcome all that, they will appear too strong. On top of that, I fitted a new spring to a herald, and it was only after a few (20?) miles with a very loaded boot and by happy coincidence a hump backed bridge, did the spring settle. And was then fine. Until tthe car is built/trimmed and used, you are won't know. But I would be happy to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 53 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: Going to have a fun day clearing drains and gutters, the torrential rain yesterday showed which need serious cleaning out These are from Wickes, they work! Probably cheaper elsewhere. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 You DO NOT want to see what I took out of the front guttering... how it gets in there I do not know, but it's a mass of twigs, leaves, moss, ash tree seeds and an indescribable smell all mixed up together. I'm dumping bucketfuls of the stuff. New fascia and guttering coming soon so I may invest in some of that brush. The fitter who gave me an estimate says the old plastic guttering is fitted incorrectly, it's too close to the slates and in any case every joint leaks. When I removed some recently I found that the PO of the house hadn't even painted in behind it, just round and over it. There are so many bodges he must be a Triumph owner too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark powell Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 When rebuilding my Midge, I modified the replacement rear spring as per original instructions by removing 2 leaves. After lowering the rolling chassis to the ground, I placed 3 large barrels of water across the rear to replicate the weight of the coming plywood body. It wasn't till after the first test drive that I found the fitted spring was bottoming out. Swapped it out for an unmodified standard used 13/60 spring and all good. moral of story Wait and see!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, mark powell said: moral of story Wait and see!. I think that's what it will come down to, in the end. Just me being my usual born worrier in advance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gully Posted February 21, 2022 Report Share Posted February 21, 2022 is it possible that with the new buttons the clamps around the leaves are too tight and without significant load on the spring they are stopping the leaves sliding? Gully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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