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I need a new gearbox


Mashby

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Hi,

My Herald 1360 gearbox has been getting progressively noisier, it pops out of reverse and drops oil. I short I need to replace it. Can anyone advise the best  way to do this? (Rebuild or swap out with a recon) and if they have any recommendations of companies or individuals in the South East London or Kent areas who could undertake a rebuild or have recon boxes for sale.

 

Any advice gratefully received

 

Many thanks 

 

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16 minutes ago, Mashby said:

Hi,

My Herald 1360 gearbox has been getting progressively noisier, it pops out of reverse and drops oil. I short I need to replace it. Can anyone advise the best  way to do this? (Rebuild or swap out with a recon) and if they have any recommendations of companies or individuals in the South East London or Kent areas who could undertake a rebuild or have recon boxes for sale.

 

Any advice gratefully received

 

Many thanks 

 

Good box builders are hard to find now, as the supply of quality parts is poor. 

So if you wish to buy a recon, look to somebody with a track record. Mike papworth is one, Canleys I think have stopped selling recon boxes, but TD Fitchetts do (though no idea who does their work) Pete cox is excellent, but sit down before you get a price. 

I have a chap in sussex, but I am certain he doesn't carry 3 synchro spare parts. If it were a single rail box, he would be ideal.

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A Herald box is definitely something you can DIY rebuild. I’ve done my first two recently (one for each car). This video and the follow ups to it are a good primer. They’re for the four synchro three rail box, but the principle is the same. 

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Your right but the difficult bit is correcting the possible damage to input and main shafts spigot bearing surfaces and laygear needle bearing surfaces. These need to be done professionally or replacements sourced and if the whole job is done by one company there should then be a guarantee on the gearbox... 

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If/when replacements are in that grey area called "unobtainium". There are Co`s around who can do metal spraying and regrinding. There was one such based in Hull back when. But I expect the S/East will also have similar.? I haven`t tackled a Gearbox in 30 or more years, largely because Auto`s are a breed unto themselves, but manuals, just need clean conditions and a plan of attack. (and parts!).

Pete

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15 hours ago, clive said:

 

I have a chap in sussex, but I am certain he doesn't carry 3 synchro spare parts. If it were a single rail box, he would be ideal.

I have about 10 3-synchro Herald boxes on the shelf if Pete is ever short.

Back to original request, 3-synchro boxes can still be picked up really cheaply secondhand, supply far outstrips demand.

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33 minutes ago, thescrapman said:

I have about 10 3-synchro Herald boxes on the shelf if Pete is ever short.

Back to original request, 3-synchro boxes can still be picked up really cheaply secondhand, supply far outstrips demand.

More to do with no demand. As you say, good used boxes are available. 

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30 minutes ago, Mathew said:

Thus you have ten on the shelf! I don't know how you have room to store everything! But at least you do saving them from the scrapman. Then the logic for your handle.

Nothing to do with cars!

The house used to be full of old computers, and my colleagues would always say I was "worse than a bloody scrap man"

And yes, I do have 10 on the shelf, all unknown quantities.

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1 hour ago, thescrapman said:

The house used to be full of old computers,

I know the feeling, 5 Laptops of varying age (one with XP installed) and a desktop. = 2 people?? 4 I-Pads, 2 relegated to Camera Monitors.. More mobile phones than EE? I should really have a serious "cull".

I`ve made a note about Gearboxes, Mine is an unknown quantity, having been stored since 2015.

Pete

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Thats the problem with secondhand though, you never know if ones any good until its installed and of course all tend to wear in the same way so the components you need are likely to be knackered as well. The only saving grace is that back in the day some of our cars failed on rust rather than gearbox so you might get lucky and find one with some life left in it...

I think I would be tempted to find a later single rail unit as they are inherently a bit stronger, newer and pretty plentiful/cheap - however being 3" longer in non OD form will require a different propshaft☹️

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13/60 will be 3 rail; Heralds never had single rail. You'll know by the top cover, which looks like the one in the photo. Single-rails were only used on the very last Spitfires (1500s) and so I'd reckon there are more 3-rails about, given all the other models that used them. Second-hand is always a risk, you're buying the driving style of the previous owners, but I've used a few before now and never yet had a problem.

If yours pops out of reverse it could simply be the gearlever bushes requiring replacement; worth a try?

3rail.jpg.cbba5c794228ab26a54fae6bcbd2d69b.jpg

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No, square flange. 4 synchro boxes all have round flanges. (all OD boxes have round flanges)

Easier still is no synchro on first gear.

Re using a single rail box, a vitesse non-od prop is the correct length. But also needs a dolly 1300 clutch plate. (all 3 rail boxes are the same length, at least I think so!)

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

13/60 will be 3 rail; Heralds never had single rail. You'll know by the top cover, which looks like the one in the photo. Single-rails were only used on the very last Spitfires (1500s) and so I'd reckon there are more 3-rails about, given all the other models that used them. Second-hand is always a risk, you're buying the driving style of the previous owners, but I've used a few before now and never yet had a problem.

If yours pops out of reverse it could simply be the gearlever bushes requiring replacement; worth a try?

I think its the noise Mashbys box is making thats the biggest worry😰 As you know the single rail had the bigger spigot bearing and larger synchro rings so two of the potential problem areas that should survive better in secondhand units... 

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1 hour ago, johny said:

I think its the noise Mashbys box is making thats the biggest worry😰 As you know the single rail had the bigger spigot bearing and larger synchro rings so two of the potential problem areas that should survive better in secondhand units... 

I'm just cognisant of the extra work involved in fitting any other kind of box, and would go for the straight swap for ease of replacement - especially where shortening or replacing the propshaft is involved. It all depends on how easy it is to source the required parts, and who'll be doing the fitting.

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we had a local heralds 13/60 that some proffessional muppets fitted a ex spitfire single rail gearbox , which they swaped the fly wheel and clutch 

the result was the box remote sits much lower and the tunnel restricted /blocked any 3rd /4th gear selection and thats how they gave it back

a 2 speed Herald 

i dont see how the remote height is that different but going single rail was not a good move , needed big hole in tunnel and a extention to the stick

it all worked in the end but car got sold soon  after 

Pete

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

we had a local heralds 13/60 that some proffessional muppets fitted a ex spitfire single rail gearbox , which they swaped the fly wheel and clutch 

the result was the box remote sits much lower and the tunnel restricted /blocked any 3rd /4th gear selection and thats how they gave it back

a 2 speed Herald 

i dont see how the remote height is that different but going single rail was not a good move , needed big hole in tunnel and a extention to the stick

it all worked in the end but car got sold soon  after 

Pete

 

 

They did something odd. I have had 3 heralds with single rail boxes, no problems at all like that. Remember the spitfire used the same tunnel throught production and was fitted with 3 varieties of box, all fine. So same will apply to the herald. 

It wasn't an OD box that was fitted? they could have got the mount wrong....

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Hi Clive it was std cotton reel mounts and non overdrive 

the mount plate looked normal  , to the eye nothing stuck out    the gear stick certainly didnt 

the gear remote  spherical was like 2"or more  below the tunnel apperture   all a bit Nuts 

they charge him a fortune and should have fitted a std recon unit   

think there was some traveller ingredient and not a morris woody 

i could have rebuilt his original in a day but he chose to spend   think its was £700  !!!!!!!!!!!

for a secondhand hybrid mix and match 

i never found out what was the cause ,  its  long gone now 

Pete

 

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Whats the plan or are you going to have a think about it? You could keep an eye on eBay and try to get lucky - quite often a secondhand box isnt a big investment and the big advantage is that its remove one box and replacement in... In the worst case scenario (the replacements no good) you'll have to restore the original unit and do the change again but it does get easier with practice😁

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