Mashby Posted June 2, 2022 Report Share Posted June 2, 2022 Hi, My Herald 1360 gearbox has been getting progressively noisier, it pops out of reverse and drops oil. I short I need to replace it. Can anyone advise the best way to do this? (Rebuild or swap out with a recon) and if they have any recommendations of companies or individuals in the South East London or Kent areas who could undertake a rebuild or have recon boxes for sale. Any advice gratefully received Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 2, 2022 Report Share Posted June 2, 2022 16 minutes ago, Mashby said: Hi, My Herald 1360 gearbox has been getting progressively noisier, it pops out of reverse and drops oil. I short I need to replace it. Can anyone advise the best way to do this? (Rebuild or swap out with a recon) and if they have any recommendations of companies or individuals in the South East London or Kent areas who could undertake a rebuild or have recon boxes for sale. Any advice gratefully received Many thanks Good box builders are hard to find now, as the supply of quality parts is poor. So if you wish to buy a recon, look to somebody with a track record. Mike papworth is one, Canleys I think have stopped selling recon boxes, but TD Fitchetts do (though no idea who does their work) Pete cox is excellent, but sit down before you get a price. I have a chap in sussex, but I am certain he doesn't carry 3 synchro spare parts. If it were a single rail box, he would be ideal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 2, 2022 Report Share Posted June 2, 2022 If its noisy the chances are some components are quite damaged (important to catch it before a major failure) so it needs a specialist but as Clive says thats not so easy.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 2, 2022 Report Share Posted June 2, 2022 if you fancy bringing the box up to sunny luton i can show you whats needed if any and you learn a bit choc biscuits may be needed to go with the tea Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted June 2, 2022 Report Share Posted June 2, 2022 A Herald box is definitely something you can DIY rebuild. I’ve done my first two recently (one for each car). This video and the follow ups to it are a good primer. They’re for the four synchro three rail box, but the principle is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 2, 2022 Report Share Posted June 2, 2022 Your right but the difficult bit is correcting the possible damage to input and main shafts spigot bearing surfaces and laygear needle bearing surfaces. These need to be done professionally or replacements sourced and if the whole job is done by one company there should then be a guarantee on the gearbox... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 If/when replacements are in that grey area called "unobtainium". There are Co`s around who can do metal spraying and regrinding. There was one such based in Hull back when. But I expect the S/East will also have similar.? I haven`t tackled a Gearbox in 30 or more years, largely because Auto`s are a breed unto themselves, but manuals, just need clean conditions and a plan of attack. (and parts!). Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 15 hours ago, clive said: I have a chap in sussex, but I am certain he doesn't carry 3 synchro spare parts. If it were a single rail box, he would be ideal. I have about 10 3-synchro Herald boxes on the shelf if Pete is ever short. Back to original request, 3-synchro boxes can still be picked up really cheaply secondhand, supply far outstrips demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 33 minutes ago, thescrapman said: I have about 10 3-synchro Herald boxes on the shelf if Pete is ever short. Back to original request, 3-synchro boxes can still be picked up really cheaply secondhand, supply far outstrips demand. More to do with no demand. As you say, good used boxes are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 30 minutes ago, Mathew said: Thus you have ten on the shelf! I don't know how you have room to store everything! But at least you do saving them from the scrapman. Then the logic for your handle. Nothing to do with cars! The house used to be full of old computers, and my colleagues would always say I was "worse than a bloody scrap man" And yes, I do have 10 on the shelf, all unknown quantities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 hour ago, thescrapman said: The house used to be full of old computers, I know the feeling, 5 Laptops of varying age (one with XP installed) and a desktop. = 2 people?? 4 I-Pads, 2 relegated to Camera Monitors.. More mobile phones than EE? I should really have a serious "cull". I`ve made a note about Gearboxes, Mine is an unknown quantity, having been stored since 2015. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 Thats the problem with secondhand though, you never know if ones any good until its installed and of course all tend to wear in the same way so the components you need are likely to be knackered as well. The only saving grace is that back in the day some of our cars failed on rust rather than gearbox so you might get lucky and find one with some life left in it... I think I would be tempted to find a later single rail unit as they are inherently a bit stronger, newer and pretty plentiful/cheap - however being 3" longer in non OD form will require a different propshaft☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 Not at all sure which type I have, (13/60 1970 build). Is the length the main identifier?. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 13/60 will be 3 rail; Heralds never had single rail. You'll know by the top cover, which looks like the one in the photo. Single-rails were only used on the very last Spitfires (1500s) and so I'd reckon there are more 3-rails about, given all the other models that used them. Second-hand is always a risk, you're buying the driving style of the previous owners, but I've used a few before now and never yet had a problem. If yours pops out of reverse it could simply be the gearlever bushes requiring replacement; worth a try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 No, square flange. 4 synchro boxes all have round flanges. (all OD boxes have round flanges) Easier still is no synchro on first gear. Re using a single rail box, a vitesse non-od prop is the correct length. But also needs a dolly 1300 clutch plate. (all 3 rail boxes are the same length, at least I think so!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: 13/60 will be 3 rail; Heralds never had single rail. You'll know by the top cover, which looks like the one in the photo. Single-rails were only used on the very last Spitfires (1500s) and so I'd reckon there are more 3-rails about, given all the other models that used them. Second-hand is always a risk, you're buying the driving style of the previous owners, but I've used a few before now and never yet had a problem. If yours pops out of reverse it could simply be the gearlever bushes requiring replacement; worth a try? I think its the noise Mashbys box is making thats the biggest worry😰 As you know the single rail had the bigger spigot bearing and larger synchro rings so two of the potential problem areas that should survive better in secondhand units... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 hour ago, johny said: I think its the noise Mashbys box is making thats the biggest worry😰 As you know the single rail had the bigger spigot bearing and larger synchro rings so two of the potential problem areas that should survive better in secondhand units... I'm just cognisant of the extra work involved in fitting any other kind of box, and would go for the straight swap for ease of replacement - especially where shortening or replacing the propshaft is involved. It all depends on how easy it is to source the required parts, and who'll be doing the fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 yes really these days if going for secondhand it comes down to whatever box you can find that you have the most confidence in😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 we had a local heralds 13/60 that some proffessional muppets fitted a ex spitfire single rail gearbox , which they swaped the fly wheel and clutch the result was the box remote sits much lower and the tunnel restricted /blocked any 3rd /4th gear selection and thats how they gave it back a 2 speed Herald i dont see how the remote height is that different but going single rail was not a good move , needed big hole in tunnel and a extention to the stick it all worked in the end but car got sold soon after Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: we had a local heralds 13/60 that some proffessional muppets fitted a ex spitfire single rail gearbox , which they swaped the fly wheel and clutch the result was the box remote sits much lower and the tunnel restricted /blocked any 3rd /4th gear selection and thats how they gave it back a 2 speed Herald i dont see how the remote height is that different but going single rail was not a good move , needed big hole in tunnel and a extention to the stick it all worked in the end but car got sold soon after Pete They did something odd. I have had 3 heralds with single rail boxes, no problems at all like that. Remember the spitfire used the same tunnel throught production and was fitted with 3 varieties of box, all fine. So same will apply to the herald. It wasn't an OD box that was fitted? they could have got the mount wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 Hi Clive it was std cotton reel mounts and non overdrive the mount plate looked normal , to the eye nothing stuck out the gear stick certainly didnt the gear remote spherical was like 2"or more below the tunnel apperture all a bit Nuts they charge him a fortune and should have fitted a std recon unit think there was some traveller ingredient and not a morris woody i could have rebuilt his original in a day but he chose to spend think its was £700 !!!!!!!!!!! for a secondhand hybrid mix and match i never found out what was the cause , its long gone now Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 Some people always seem to do stuff the hard way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted June 3, 2022 Report Share Posted June 3, 2022 Matthew - Get in the queue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashby Posted June 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2022 Many thanks for all the advice, looks like a big job in prospect for the autumn after we have all enjoyed the summer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 6, 2022 Report Share Posted June 6, 2022 Whats the plan or are you going to have a think about it? You could keep an eye on eBay and try to get lucky - quite often a secondhand box isnt a big investment and the big advantage is that its remove one box and replacement in... In the worst case scenario (the replacements no good) you'll have to restore the original unit and do the change again but it does get easier with practice😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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