Woody2000 Posted June 7, 2022 Report Share Posted June 7, 2022 Hi question have a auto 2000 with road cam in it doesn’t run properly got a camshaft from Colin Lewis quick question if I take the head off etc what about camshaft bearings or would it be easier to change auto box to a manual to suit the engine (camshaft ) and leave it in the engine ??? just wondered what people thought ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 7, 2022 Report Share Posted June 7, 2022 both involve a lot of work does it even have cam bearing or direct in the block a change to manual needs the crank to take a spigot bush and flywheel , i have this idea the cranks were different ????? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted June 8, 2022 Report Share Posted June 8, 2022 Cranks are NOT different between auto and manual. Highly unlikely the block has bearings in the cam way. None did from the factory and to fit them involved line-boring the block so rarely done without good reason. taking the head and chain case off to change the cam will be less aggro than a manual gearbox conversion. Unless mk1 as cam needs to be withdrawn through the nose cone…… What actual cam is fitted now? Could be that carburettors and distributor need recalibrating to get the best from it? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody2000 Posted June 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2022 Hi Nick not sure what is fitted was told by the guy I got it off that the cam had been reprofiled it has su carbs fitted spoke to a old school rolling toad place and he said straight away to change the cam back to standard Quite happy taking the head off but not sure about the oil pump drive and dizzy asking around trying to get some help with it !!!! it’s a 1973 mk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted June 8, 2022 Report Share Posted June 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Woody2000 said: spoke to a old school rolling toad place and he said straight away to change the cam back to standard Based on what? It’s been messed with so parts are mis-matched, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it can’t be made to run well without delving into the bowels of the engine. Are you saying it didn’t originally have SUs? What was the Colin Lewis reference in your first post? Worth doing a bit of research up front or you might do major work unnecessarily. Nick ps. Whereabouts are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted June 8, 2022 Report Share Posted June 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Woody2000 said: old school rolling toad Bit harsh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted June 8, 2022 Report Share Posted June 8, 2022 On 07/06/2022 at 20:25, Woody2000 said: Hi question have a auto 2000 with road cam in it doesn’t run properly got a camshaft from Colin Lewis quick question if I take the head off etc what about camshaft bearings or would it be easier to change auto box to a manual to suit the engine (camshaft ) and leave it in the engine ??? just wondered what people thought ?? "it doesn't run properly" How? In what way is it improper? One ' Colin Lewis' ground it? Who he? Have you asked him? It's an "auto 2000" without an automatic gearbox???? So very many questions that you raise and don't answer! Not even the age of the car. A regrind would not be required just to fit SUs (Strombergs originally?). Please, give us more details to work on! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody2000 Posted June 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, Nick Jones said: Based on what? It’s been messed with so parts are mis-matched, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it can’t be made to run well without delving into the bowels of the engine. Are you saying it didn’t originally have SUs? What was the Colin Lewis reference in your first post? Worth doing a bit of research up front or you might do major work unnecessarily. Nick ps. Whereabouts are you? The Colon comment was he supplied me with a good original camshaft I have had the head off already so quite happy to that point I have tried and are trying to research this but at the end of the day I would like to just drive it without stalling and enjoy driving it which I don’t at the moment !! I’m in Surrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody2000 Posted June 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2022 Sorry Colin comment !! he supplied me with a good second hand original camshaft it’s a 1973 mk 2 2000 auto all original but with twin 1.5 su carbs and a reprofiled cam in it idles ok put it into drive the revs drop and during driving you have to put it into Neutral then back into Drive hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted June 8, 2022 Report Share Posted June 8, 2022 Whereabouts in Surrey?. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody2000 Posted June 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 10 hours ago, Steve P said: Whereabouts in Surrey?. Steve 10 hours ago, Steve P said: Whereabouts in Surrey?. Steve Hi Steve I’m in Coulsdon CR5 Sorry Colin comment !! he supplied me with a good second hand original camshaft it’s a 1973 mk 2 2000 auto all original but with twin 1.5 su carbs and a reprofiled cam in it idles ok put it into drive the revs drop and during driving you have to put it into Neutral then back into Drive hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted June 9, 2022 Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 OK, you have a car that runs, AND another used camshaft that you want to fit? It is far more likely that an engine that doesn't deliver power needs adjustment other than a new cam! Ignition timing, fuelling more likely problems. If you have fitted the reground cam yourself, then and with respect, the timing of the cam shaft has to be suspect. See accounts of "Equal Lift on Overlap" for a way of cam timing that doesn't involve protractors. For a way to quickly and easily check the cam timing, see: A new method of cam timing - Engine and Ancillary talk - Sideways Technologies (sideways-technologies.co.uk) John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody2000 Posted June 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 John the car was taken to my mates garage and had electronic ign fitted new leads plugs pipes etc carbs adjusted ,rebuilt fuel pump ,tank drained etc it runs ok but the owner I got it from told me about the cam and the fact that it shouldn’t have been fitted but it was by a family member that owned the car before him . I will have a read of the article you have mentioned and thanks 🙏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 9, 2022 Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 is this stalling work from idle to D or you loose power in D when driving doesnt seem a cam problem unless i=as john suggests its timed incorrectly and fitting electronic ign def needs the ignition timing correcting /checking its not a straight swap it need adjusting after fitting Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted June 9, 2022 Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 Don`t take this the wrong way but, did your mates garage know what they were doing swapping to electronic and setting up afterwards, as Pete said the pickup would be different to the points setup so timing may be way out. Also carbs need to be setup properly. Can`t think why the previous owner said the cam shouldn,t have been fitted, other than it`s a race type which wouldn`t be good on an otherwise pretty standard engine. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody2000 Posted June 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 yes guys all was done correctly my mates a fully qualified Saab mechanic and loves old school motors and owns many the timing etc he has had it twice at the garage , reset the carbs retimed the engine think it was about 16degrees BTDC not sure but it was way out as we didn’t know what the cam had been reprofiled too ie fast road race etc Sorry Colin comment !! he supplied me with a good second hand original camshaft it’s a 1973 mk 2 2000 auto all original but with twin 1.5 su carbs and a reprofiled cam in it idles ok put it into drive the revs drop and during driving you have to put it into Neutral then back into Drive hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody2000 Posted June 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 Yes Pete was timed up afterwards when you go from a nice level idle into drive the revs drop and can into a rambling stall unless you put in N and revs it a little then D to go again bit of a pain certainly doesn’t like traffic 😳 I haven’t had a old auto box in any classic I owned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 9, 2022 Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 D will drop the idle as it gives you a crawl mode i would up the ide a bit , not too much or it will try to drive harder and engage witha bit of a thump but 800 should work Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted June 9, 2022 Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 Modern cars open the air bypass valve or throttle by quite some significant way when you put the autobox in D. And the idle speed still drops. If you have a classic auto and set the neutral idle to where you would on a manual then it WILL stall when you put it in drive. As Pete says, bump the idle up a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody2000 Posted June 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2022 Pete it’s more when I driving around because it’s a lumpy idle I think due to the cam when you stop with your foot on the brake it can enter a rambling stall but I will try the idle It sits at about 800 /900 rpm at idle so I need to increase this ?? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishawley Posted June 10, 2022 Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 On 08/06/2022 at 20:01, Woody2000 said: but not sure about the oil pump drive and dizzy You may be the other side of this now, but just in case. The basic procedures are set out in the ops manuals and Haynes so I won't repeat those. Add on points are: The 2000/2500 manual does not make it clear that the oil pump/dist. drive needs to be removed to extract the camshaft. Clearer in the GT6/Vitesse manual. Removing dist. and drive distrupts the ignition timing even if camshaft not being removed. So, put marks on body of dist. and its pedestal so it can be refitted in the same orientation. Note which direction rotor arm is pointing in (so that when all reassembled it points roughly the same). Undo pinch clamp and extract dist. Remove distributor pedestal (two bolts) noting the presence of gaskets and shims (if any, endfloat may beed to be checked on refitting). Note position of slot in face of the drive and that it is offset from centre. Extract drive (magnet on stick or similar). Refitting is reverse of above except that when dropping the drive back in it has to rotate to mesh with the teeth on the cam so has to be fed in 'wrong' to allow for it to be 'right' as it rotates into position. That way there's a chance of preserving an approximate timing. But only if the crankshaft is not moved and that a new cam is going in in the same timing orientation (to the crank) as the one that's come out. So best to set engine to TDC on No.1 firing before starting the work and keep it there. But from what you've said there's no 100% evidence, thus far, that the camshaft timing is correct. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 10, 2022 Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 a silly cam can give a rougher /lumpy idle and can need a rise in the normal and valve tappet clearances can be different to std, all this adds up but if the mixture and timing are ok theres no reason an auto or a wild cam should induce a stall it seems to me the basic settings are in some trouble just what cam is fitted do you have ant data on it |?? where abouts are you ??? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted June 10, 2022 Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 15 hours ago, NonMember said: Modern cars open the air bypass valve or throttle by quite some significant way when you put the autobox in D. And the idle speed still drops. If you have a classic auto and set the neutral idle to where you would on a manual then it WILL stall when you put it in drive. As Pete says, bump the idle up a little. What Rob and Pete say. It is true that cams used in old school autos have characteristics biased to low end torque and this does mean that they produce more torque at idle and are thus better able to handle the load from engaging drive without excessive rev drop/stalling. There are ways around this. The simplest is to add ignition timing advance. They can take a lot of advance at idle. The limiting factors are that: a) you need to modify the distributor advance curve so this doesn’t carry through to excessive advance further up the rev range. b) there’s comes a point where you can’t start the engine as it try’s to run backwards…. Extra air valves are another route. Plenty of possibilities on older FI cars from 80s and 90s that could be triggered from a micro switch on the linkage. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody2000 Posted June 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: a silly cam can give a rougher /lumpy idle and can need a rise in the normal and valve tappet clearances can be different to std, all this adds up but if the mixture and timing are ok theres no reason an auto or a wild cam should induce a stall it seems to me the basic settings are in some trouble just what cam is fitted do you have ant data on it |?? where abouts are you ??? Pete Hi Pete I have no no info on the cam at all I based in Coulsdon Surrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 10, 2022 Report Share Posted June 10, 2022 thats a bit too far to suggest a twiddle in luton Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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