Quack Posted July 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 Also as I mention in the vid the pump randomly worked for a short while earlier on when the connection was leaking but now it’s not again so who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 as I say if its mounted on the engine it could be that the cam is holding the arm fully operated so the manual lever wont work. In fact in the video the manual lever looks very easy to move just as if this is the situation... What a marathon! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted July 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 Okay so detached from the engine block and cam it pumps fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 Right so it sounds like youve been unlucky and the pump arm is being held open by the cam. Next then is to install the pump and spin engine so pump draws fuel through and pumps into container. You can try from a bottle and then the tank but in both cases make extra sure the connections are all air tight on suction side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted July 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 Okay so I’ll rotate the engine by hand with the pump attached and get back to you. How come it worked earlier randomly though that’s what confused me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted July 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 Wait hang on sorry I’m confused as to what you mean. What will it achieve by me rotating it if the pump isn’t working by the cam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 As I say double check connections including the pump top cap if youve undone that... The pump should work from the cam but if when the engine stops running the lobe of the cam happens to stop when pushing against the pump arm the pump is effectively locked. Spin the engine on the starter as by hand will probably operate the pump too slowly and it wont work.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted July 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 Ok so I’m just cranking the engine with the pump leading in to a cup…now what? Surely it just won’t draw fuel because it’s not working by the cam.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 3 hours ago, Quack said: I did push the lever whilst it was screwed in to the line and it didn’t pump any fuel in by the looks of it. Here are the two pumps, ones one is the cleaner one of course. Those are different pumps, see the differing shape of the lever? Longer lever needs a spacer block between block and pump, shorter doesn't. Later Spitfires had the longer lever but earlier were the same as Heralds, with the shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 It looks from your photo like cranking the engine is pumping fuel into the cup? If so, then the pump is working fine and the petrol tank feed is not (permanently) blocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted July 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: Those are different pumps, see the differing shape of the lever? Longer lever needs a spacer block between block and pump, shorter doesn't. Later Spitfires had the longer lever but earlier were the same as Heralds, with the shorter. This is what I thought and why I posted the picture but wasn’t sure if it would make a difference, bit annoying as the supplier said it would fit but will look in to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted July 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, Josef said: It looks from your photo like cranking the engine is pumping fuel into the cup? If so, then the pump is working fine and the petrol tank feed is not (permanently) blocked. Sorry I should have said that drip was already in there, it didn’t pump anything in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 Ok so confirmed the pump not working on cranking. Now try on the manual lever again as hopefully youre off the cam now.... This is the spacer type so you do have the right pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted July 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 Ok so larger update: I got the old pump out and tried to manually test it, I didn’t know it had that lever before so I never tried. Anyway it works completely fine so I jumped the gun by buying the new pump because I was in a rush for a road trip…anyway I’m sending the new pump back. I then continued to test the old pump. I went straight from the pump to the tank, pump to Jerry can etc etc and finally deduced that the pipe that goes in to the tank is causing problems, it doesn’t seem to be bringing any fuel up. When I use rubber tubing from a Jerry can directly to the pump manually it works fine. I think it’s to do with the rubber connections being too big and letting air in to the fuel line, so I need to order some smaller rubber tubing to connect the microbore. there will still be problems after this granted, but I will try to deal with this first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted July 31, 2022 Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 Great, yes that sounds quite possible. The pump I take it is pumping ok from a can when driven by the engine cam? You might want to keep the new pump as a quick replacement? The valves in them can fail quite easily (both must seal correctly) although you might get an early warning first with fuel starvation at high speeds/loads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted August 1, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 Hmmm yes i suppose it cant hurt to hold on to it for now, always good to have a spare in the boot. I'll do some more diagnosing today. I need to try the pump from cam to jerry can with rubber hose before doing anything else, as i only tried it manually last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 You need to work out a safe way to draw fuel from the tank and get it to the inlet of the pump. The old school way would have been to suck on the pipe, but the risk of getting a mouth full of petrol makes this a bad way of doing it. If you have a large syringe - such as for drawing up oil - then use this to draw the fuel from the tank. Once there is fuel at the input to the pump, it should work. This will also reveal if there are any air leaks at any of the joints along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 As I say, with a really good pair of lungs and lips*, you pressurise the tank from the filler pipe and hold it so that after a moment petrol is pushed out along the fuel line, through the pump valves all the way to the carb👍 * Disclaimer: It is the responsibility of the user of this procedure to ensure no damage occurs to eardrums, lungs or colon.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 if the pump is having its correct stroke it will pump out the air and suck in the fuel just like its first start on the end of the line its first burst to life as a car they dont faf around on production it should work wrong pump arms /wrong use of spacer/ no spacer, air leaks from poor hose connections and if correct the daft silly pump does what it says on the tin . what fuel line you use is immaterial provinding is sound and clear metal /plastic/ rubber they will all work a simple check with finger over the ports tests the basic operation block the outlet the pump lever goes free when the pressure holds the actuaing shaft down , the sprin provided the pressure and you will feel the air escape same with the inlet a good suckwill be detected its pretty basic stuff and a simple pump sorry we seem to have a lot of faffing around going on for a basic component pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted August 1, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 The pump works manually that conclusion has already been drawn, I’m focusing on the fuel getting to the pump now. I did blow in the tank yesterday to push fuel to the pump, but it can’t seem to pull the fuel in on its own hence why I’m looking in to the pipes not being airtight. Earlier I ran the fuel pump manually directly from Jerry can and it worked, so I fitted it on to the engine block to let the cam get to work with a bit of fuel in the filter but it didn’t start. currently got the battery on trickle charge as it’s likely all the attempted starts are running it low. It’s been a couple weeks since the alternator has had the chance to charge it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 48 minutes ago, Quack said: Earlier I ran the fuel pump manually directly from Jerry can and it worked, so I fitted it on to the engine block to let the cam get to work with a bit of fuel in the filter but it didn’t start. Did you feel the pump "resisting" as you fitted it? The last quarter inch or so should be pushing the lever against the spring, so you should be able to feel that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 its quite easy to get the pump lever the wrong side of the cam it does happen you should need to press the pump against the block against the spring pressure to align the mounting faces if it pops on with no loading somats wrong Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted August 1, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 Yeah there's plenty of resistance, i had to hold the pump pushed in as i screwed it on, the lever was forcing it back out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quack Posted August 1, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 Also quick question, anybody know the name for the little pipes that connect from the pump inlet/outlet to the hose? They screw in to the pump and have a sort of 'stopper' on the end of them, i've noticed that one of mine doesn't have that stopper which could cause problems/leaks later. Edit: found them https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174370489782?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D240679%26meid%3Dcba7426db1d9448193ab332362dc91c2%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D154519332746%26itm%3D174370489782%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeedKnnRecallV1WithImageBatchRecallCoreAI&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A174370489782cba7426db1d9448193ab332362dc91c2|enc%3AAQAHAAABMAcMXr%2F091BrP%2B67T259TK1Jntx9aeN3CMQqTIyzwSCBiJ8X%2FQ%2BZk5rcfVGRnBLrU%2B1Id%2FEaflQMElTC1yw3BlVQYpiioi1qszGfWsrgbQAzVtMn57tkgqcQJn%2BUAgaAt3lYMo78N%2Bo3clkm2megrIKc8QvCJzAwWBMXw1CVJ5d%2B7NHaIeCNMS%2BrOEmcA2luEarAU6N2n4qu2e1Dw9JBzG0c7Qef9MNdm%2FURzpSnLTTrrxJsInoXxasLg4p8TDXN4iO55sqNfiq7DyjkWxqBZBYzuCUQ0MRZhPx%2FWI2PMKvweZGgzxKj%2BKfQ5qY92TvZpcm%2BlO67sopDrMjPAmCUSv%2FLoQjVw%2FKhOY%2BQUCBzYBoeF6k68buC5HzA5kJ1JnEUhZ2EeoBoCIif6HDavQiwG5U%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foshi Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 as i said had same problem, would not suck through i connected my spare electric pump fuel came straight through connected pipe back to the manual pipe took a fair bit of cranking as the carbs had run dry .now working fine , you will need a charged good battery . but no point until you have fuel from the tank feed . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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