Wipac halogen headlamps

[Colin]

Hi Iain,

Thanks. But I've been behind the dash. I've had her 35 years, so all alterations are mine! Yes, it is a rat's nest!! 🤣

Good luck with yours!

[Wagger]

If you can connect two wires to a working brake or indicator bulb, using a bayonet connector from an old socket such as a Trailer Board, connect one wire to the chassis or battery 'Earth'. Then use the bare end of the other wire as a 'Probe'. You can then prod around until a connection fails to illuminate the bulb. Start at the fuse as this is the first point of failure on my car. The terminals corrode rapidly. I keep meaning to fit a new block with multiple bladed fuses. I am a retired Electrical and Electronic Engineer, so have no excuse really.

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, Colin said:

As you all know the dash light switch is a two-position switch; 

 

- First pull position, sidelights only; 

 

 - Second position, dipped or main beam (dependent upon stalk position).

Not on a Herald. On a Herald it's

- first position, exterior lights (side, main or dip depending on column stalk)

- second position, dash illumination as well.

Might the jewel look like it's on because of dash illumination? I've had that in the past. Either way, my bet's on the wire from the dash switch to the column switch, which is separate from the wire that feeds (from the same dash switch terminal) the side lights

[Colin]

Hi guys,

I know I should really be doing the diagnosis work you've all kindly spoken about!

I've ordered a replacement (thanks Matthew, for your offer). 

Thanks for all reminders as to what the 2 position switch actually does, too! You'd think I'd know, wouldn't you??!!

Gonna fit it first and then see where I am with things - After 50 years, it could probably benefit from a new switch mechanism!! 

Will keep advised! Just hoping it's nothing I did when fitting Club hazard switch 😉🤣

Best,

C.

[Colin]

Hi Chaps:-

I have (at last) taken receipt of a new Dashboard Light Switch (no headlight problem above)

I have accessed the switch by pulling out the ash tray. 

With my new working multimeter, I measured the resistance through the old switch and actually all parameters were acceptable. But on the basis I had new to replace 50 year old, I thought I'd fix the new one in. 

Two probs - one to note for anyone else is doing the same :-

1) when tightening the wiring via the screws into the terminals, the tightened screws cut the wiring and the cables nearly came loose. I'm glad I noticed it as if it'd happened while the car was travelling, goodness only knows where those cables would have been rubbing against and shorting across. I think this is because the receiving surface inside the terminal appears slightly concave and the edges of the screws basically severe the wire strands. This I can get around by soldering a small spade onto the wires, and letting the terminal screws compress the spade end, not the wire stranding.

2) For some reason - and I only know of one owner before me and I certainly can't recall doing this myself - a thin grey wire was connected to the blue/brown wire terminal. I currently have no idea where this goes to and it was, for some reason, connected with a 'choc' block connector - so clearly an amateur fitting. I note there is no grey wire showing on the circuit diagram to or from the dash switch (thanks to my departed Dad for marking that diagram up for me!).

Iain T:- if you did take or if you still have your dash off (mine will have to come off to be re-lacquered), can you confirm the wiring you have to the dash light switch rear, please? We can describe the terminals as being at 10 o'clock, 2 o'clock and 6 o'clock, when looked at from the cabin side of the dash looking forward, with the bulbous hump/protruding section on the switch at the top at 12 o'clock position.

I have Brown/Red at 10;                    Brown/Blue AND wierd thin grey to 2 o'clock                       and twin red/white wires together in the 6 o'clock terminal (photo).

Wagger:- I had a quick look at the dip switch on the column - on cursory inspection didn't see any evidence of melt-down.

I will report back as soon as I have installed the new switch successfully and if I can try it out without blowing myself up, see what does/doesn't work - and if I can figure out what this rogue grew wire is up to.

Cheers, chaps.

[Colin Lindsay]

From my own 1200: terminal A has power in, red and brown; S1 to the bottom of the pic has the power out to lights, brown and blue; the remaining S2 terminal has two red and whites for dashboard illumination.

[Colin]

Colin L;

Hi! And thanks!!

How great to have a switch with terminals marked! I have just noticed my old switch is, too! 

And I note "S1 to the bottom of the pic has the power out to lights, brown and blue" really has two reasonably heavy gauge wires - see mine as was fitted? Just the one 'proper' gauge wire and then that spurious lightweight grey! 

Do we have fuses? Too light a wire would surely blow a fuse under full load at some point??

Best - and thanks! 

Colin

[NonMember]

33 minutes ago, Colin said:

Do we have fuses?

No, it's a Herald.

33 minutes ago, Colin said:

Too light a wire would surely blow a fuse under full load at some point??

Why do you say that? A fuse will blow if a LOT of current flows. Too thin a wire gauge will not increase current! It may reduce it, if the wire gets hot.

[Wagger]

16 minutes ago, NonMember said:

No, it's a Herald.

Why do you say that? A fuse will blow if a LOT of current flows. Too thin a wire gauge will not increase current! It may reduce it, if the wire gets hot.

Absolutely correct. If the wire is too thin, it will melt the insulation before the fuse melts. Fuses are to protect wiring from overheating.

[Colin]

Ta!

I think my real next step is to find that which Colin L had - and I seem not to have - the 2nd elusive blue/ brown wire!! 

[Colin]

OK Folks;

Spurious thin grey wire conundrum solved. Don't think it was me, but certainly someone has had a fiddle in the past. For some reason that grey wire was connected as one of the two blue/browns which connect to terminal S1. I've re-made it and marked it up as blue-brown.

Talking of blue/brown, I also found the bullet connector end of one blue/brown pretty much out of its connector to the remainder of the loom, so that was pushed back in nice and tight - I thought, "I'll bet that was simply the issue - a dodgy wiring connection. But no.

So, my switch is now all as should be wiring-wise.

Tried again - nothing but sidelights again, even on main and dip setting. I've taken a cursory look at the stalk lighting switch. It operates nicely ("feels OK"). Speedo Blue 'jewel' indicator that normally shows full beam on, is on for both Main and dip beam settings.

I DO now have a decently working multi-meter. Where do I test (that I can get to easily) to check where the problems lies?

I've read back through the suggestions . . .

Non Member:- I'm not sure how I can test the stalk connection you refer to (Quote "Either way, my bet's on the wire from the dash switch to the column switch, which is separate from the wire that feeds (from the same dash switch terminal) the side lights"). Which wire do you mean?

As far as I can see in the car, the stalk has: Blue/Brown, Blue/Red and Blue/White, wiring at the top switch (column top) end.

I can't see Blue/Brown as connected from this stalk switch as it exists in reality in the wiring diagram (item 12), though!

There doesn't appear to be a Brown/Red (which would be its power, right?) to that switch! 

Any further thoughts, anyone? Cheers,

C.

 

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, Colin said:

I'm not sure how I can test the stalk connection you refer to (Quote "Either way, my bet's on the wire from the dash switch to the column switch, which is separate from the wire that feeds (from the same dash switch terminal) the side lights"). Which wire do you mean?

The column switch should be supplied through the dash one, otherwise the headlights will come on without the side lights when the dash switch is off. The wiring diagram in the official WSM shows this as a "NR" (brown with red trace) wire. For the 1200, it shows a red wire spliced off this mid-way, to feed the side lights.

The brown/blue wire to the master light switch is the main power - direct from battery via the dynamo control box. The output of the master light switch should be brown/red. The stalk certainly should not have a brown/blue connection.

1 hour ago, Colin said:

Speedo Blue 'jewel' indicator that normally shows full beam on, is on for both Main and dip beam settings.

If the wiring sounded anything like correct, I'd say that points to a grounding problem on the headlights. However, with all the wiring colours being wrong, the possibility that it's all just connected up bass-ackwards can't be ignored.

[Colin Lindsay]

The stalk controls the light distribution through the power coming in. The dashboard switch is merely on / off.

Brown / blue is power in to the master switch - it has two wires as one controls the courtesy lights, and is therefore always live.

The brown / red, power out, splits to both red / brown, and red; the red takes the power to the sidelights which don't require the column switch, but you should still have a red / brown wire coming in to the column switch HOWEVER (and this is not shown in any of the wiring diagrams I have) it connects to a blue / brown wire at the end of the column switch loom. The column switch will have brown / blue, blue / white and blue / red wires. Follow the brown / blue along the loom to the bullet connectors and it will connect to the red / brown from the master switch. Blue / brown should be power in; blue / white and blue / red are the two circuits for main beam and dipped. There's no power to the sidelights through the column switch - the sidelight symbol merely means that both headlamp circuits are off in this position but the power is coming through the master switch only straight to the sidelights. 

[Colin]

Thank you, Colin & Non-Member!

Not sure where the Headlights Earth is situated!

I have just rammed my head under the dash and checked out what is connecting to the column stalk.

Colin, I think this is commensurate with your description.

As follows:

2 no. Brown/Red (NR) to stalk switch Brown/Blue NU

1 no. thick Blue/Red (UR) to stalk switch Blue/Red

2 no. Blue/White (UW) to stalk switch Blue/White

Sounds about right . . . ??

C.

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, Colin said:

Not sure where the Headlights Earth is situated!

I'm not familiar with the 1200 but on Vitesses and Spitfires the headlights have a black wire that goes to the bundle of bullet connectors in the nose cone, which connect to a black wire in the loom. The most common fault here is that one of those black wires isn't making proper contact in the bullet connector.

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, Colin said:

2 no. Brown/Red (NR) to stalk switch Brown/Blue NU

1 no. thick Blue/Red (UR) to stalk switch Blue/Red

2 no. Blue/White (UW) to stalk switch Blue/White

Sounds about right . . . ??

C.

At the bullet connectors where they join the column switch you should have one brown / red and one thinner red in a double connector - thicker to headlamps, thinner to sidelights. This brown / red connects to the column switch brown / blue but the thinner red although it takes power from the same circuit heads off under the dash and straight to the sidelights.

You'll have two blue white, one thick one thin in a double connector. The thin is the main beam warning and goes to the speedo. Thicker is power to main beam circuit via the column switch.

You'll have one red / blue, dipped beam, connects to column switch.

 

[Colin]

Hey All,

As usual, many, many thanks for all assistance and technical know-how rendered.

Today, I finished dismantling, cleaning every last aspect of, and, renewing where necessary, all the under-front-bonnet light connections. 

The earth was shockingly corroded - I even threw the old bullet connector away and replaced it.

After the remaining dismantling and cleanings were completed, I connected the battery again and 'hey presto' - lights as should be - and same for the speedo full beam jewel indicator functioning correctly.

I thank you all for your help - the upside is I improved the under-dash cabling and now know more about the switch & its system;

Now have a younger dash light switch;

Have tackled the under-bonnet wiring (which I've been putting off as recent renovation had them covered in stone chip blacking and old insulation tape);

And am at the point where I can remove the other dash units so I can sand & re-lacquer it.

Cheers, All! 

C.

 

[Peter Truman]

I gave up trying to reuse old bullet connectors around 20 years ago and have i think replaced nearly all of them in the Vitesse. the old ones besides dirty inside break very easy when trying t close them up to make them tighter. New ones look better steel and are relatively cheap and easy to get,

I keep a good stock just in case needed of singles and doubles, but the 3 unit single separate connector ones aren't available so I use 3 singles taped together with shrink tube so it looks original.

Also after cleaning the male bullet with the Dremmel using a wire brush then a smear of copper grease on the male bullet helps pushing it home, after getting the bullet located with pliers a small flat blade screwdriver works to push it in, but is there a special tool for this?

[Colin Lindsay]

12 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

getting the bullet located with pliers a small flat blade screwdriver works to push it in, but is there a special tool for this?

Yes, there are bullet pliers that push both bullets in simultaneously, or else hold one while the other one goes in. Ripaults are the ones to go for:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275550565641?hash=item402817f509:g:hXQAAOSwGjFjfOpo&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoCFE2VDl1Ib%2FWSPW%2FG3BAbymDgRdK0XljI9G%2BeNpFUSSOpxos%2BtZpcNdclQMK6m9IORaFf1vdW%2FgdDu2ZKGVT8wlZQ2dGzvdQ99cJKbmn4annJ85t%2FpatCxIA0OcgZ0YtI3JuHpmL1x%2FswGYFsUVGKXrX%2FvjNtrZxb6Qz%2FCLmIRf0tTjSec%2FtHr8fSANrSAvog5PFsvx4VWibUicovJipuc%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8zbvbyUYQ

[Colin]

Great information, Colin - I use the small flat screwdriver method - but a correct tool to do a job is always a bonus! 😉

C.

[Colin]

Having cleaned and where nec renewed connections, I tucked the bonnet front wiring into a commercial, pre-split flexible conduit and wrapped it with self-amalgamating rubber tape (B&Q). Will help prevent any potential movement chafing and slow atmosphere ingress (& therefore connection oxidation). 

Shame I broke the 2 side cable supports off (but they've been bent back & forth dozens of times anyway!). Now need to remake those before other issues! 

Thanks for all help.

[Colin]

Thanks to all for every suggestion made - and listened to!

Just to 'top & tail' my sudden loss of headlights, I'll recap:- 

Very simply, the under-front-bonnet wiring (sides & headlights) had God-awful Earth connections. 

Of course I cleaned & re-made any dodgy looking connections, de-tangled them from previous quick fixes etc., but as soon as that whole Earth connection was removed, cleaned, re-made as necessary, all was back to functioning perfectly.

The dash switch circumstance - the one I had hoped would be the quick-fix cause, wasn't the cause. But I did get a switch from Mick Dolphin which had very much less use (mine had pull position 2 corner bakelite broken off from use), to use in preference for a long-awaited Rimmer replacement.

I would warn folk regarding these:- if used, I would recommend cabling is tinned before fitting and tightening - I tried with cable just tight twisted ends and screwed up tight, that cabling was cut through, because, as far as I can see, the straight cut sides of the tightening screw goes into a slightly cupped end drilling on the inside of the terminal - acts as a cutter!

Anyway, it's now a 'spare' on the shelf.

So, I bought lengths of pre-slit plastic flexible conduit and tucked the front cabling into it and sealed ends with self-amalgamating rubber tape - keep the atmos out.

Checked it all still worked. All good. As can be seen, it's a much neater conglomerate than having a bunch if straggly wires kicking around. 

Had to make and rivet new check strips (sadly I don't weld), the old having broken on bending.

Now to take the remainder of the dash out, sand and re-lacquer!

Cheers, All.

C.

 

[Stratton Jimmer]

Handy place to keep an emergency four pack!😁🍺

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Stratton Jimmer said:

Handy place to keep an emergency four pack!😁🍺

Underbonnet beer...

[Colin]

I wondered who would be the Eagle-eyed sleuth!! 😃