Wipac halogen headlamps

[Dave the tram]

I know there has been a lot of discussion already on this, but before I buy Wipac halogens from the club shop for my GT6, people talk about the Wipac crystal headlamps being the ones to get. All the adds I find stating ‘Crystal’ are specifically for land rovers. The ones I can find to fit small triumphs, including the club shop, aren’t described as crystal just H4 halogen. Is there a difference? I’ve already fitted relays and direct feed.

Dave

[Clive]

I have te Wipac crystal lamps. They were sold as landrover, but the round 7" lamps are all interchangeable. 

Just be aware they do look different. But are very effective. 

[Dave the tram]

Hi Clive

So are you saying that Wipac ones that aren’t described as crystal, such as at the club shop, are different and perhaps not as good? I’ve read in other posts that the land rover ones described as crystal have different shaped attachments and need modding, but clearly you have fitted them fine.

cheers

Dave

[Colin Lindsay]

Some of the Halogen units may have different mounting lugs for the backing bowls (to keep the glass headlamps upright for the correct beam pattern) - I know the Mini versions do.

There are no photos on the Club Shop website; this has been raised many times - but the code number given there is for the Wipac Quadoptic S4694B. These appear on quite a number of websites and don't appear to be specific to Triumph. I've used them before and they're a good upgrade from sealed beams.

https://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/halogen-headlamp-set-wipac-right-hand-drivejpr577w

https://www.jagspares.co.uk/product/category/2885/wipac-quadoptics-(pair)-rhd-without-pilot/s4694b

[Clive]

10 minutes ago, Dave the tram said:

Hi Clive

So are you saying that Wipac ones that aren’t described as crystal, such as at the club shop, are different and perhaps not as good? I’ve read in other posts that the land rover ones described as crystal have different shaped attachments and need modding, but clearly you have fitted them fine.

cheers

Dave

I fitted mine in 2007, but I don't remember any issues. If there were, it was nothing difficult. 

Yes, the "normal" type have the pattern in the glass, and not as good as the crystal type at lighting the road up. Some people don't like teh plain glass, others (me!) are just pleased with the increased lighting performance. 

[Nigel Clark]

My experience with Wipac halogen reflectors is that after a few years, the silvering corrodes and peels. Cibié and Lucas last better.

The Lucas halogen reflectors on my TR6 are 20 years old and still look as good as new.... Or would do if I cleaned off the fly spatter!

Nigel

[Clive]

4 minutes ago, Nigel Clark said:

My experience with Wipac halogen reflectors is that after a few years, the silvering corrodes and peels. Cibié and Lucas last better.

The Lucas halogen reflectors on my TR6 are 20 years old and still look as good as new.... Or would do if I cleaned off the fly spatter!

Nigel

My Wipac are 15 years old, and the lived outside for much of the time. Reflectors still all good. Previous "normal" type Wipac have failed rather faster. Not sure I woud trust new Lucas as they only make boxes, all the contents are contracted out to "best value" suppliers. 

[Colin Lindsay]

21 minutes ago, clive said:

Yes, the "normal" type have the pattern in the glass, and not as good as the crystal type at lighting the road up. Some people don't like teh plain glass, others (me!) are just pleased with the increased lighting performance. 

The Wipac Clearform are the ones with the plain glass; all of the beam pattern comes from the reflector. I had those in the GT6 and they were excellent. The others were Wipac Quadoptics, with the pattern in the glass, but it's seems to be an improved version. I think the older style were called 'Crystal Clear' and they might be the basic unit.

https://www.wipac.com/history

 

 

[Ian Foster]

Dave

You might also like to consider Cibie H180 units, which when fitted with Philips VisionPlus bulbs are awesome (better than our moderns).

To get maximum benefit and to take load off the switch, add relays.

Ian

[Dave the tram]

On 20/09/2022 at 09:14, Ian Foster said:

Dave

You might also like to consider Cibie H180 units, which when fitted with Philips VisionPlus bulbs are awesome (better than our moderns).

To get maximum benefit and to take load off the switch, add relays.

Ian

Thanks all. Might pause on this until I’ve cleaned up the bowls - one has a big hole corroded through it so might need to replace these as well. Will research the Cibie 180s further.

 Have already got relays and a direct, fused live feed from battery but will check earth feed as well when refitting. No rush as car is off for bodywork and respray in a week and may be away for 6-8 weeks (see other thread)

Cheers

Dave

 

[Colin]

Hi Chaps,

As you all know I'm v. dim -  a bit like my sealed beam headlight units which have, in tandem, decided to pack up.

Haven't driven at night or evening, so their only use has been to 'flash' people on in narrow road situations.

The units don't appear blackened ('blown, burnt out') and I haven't fiddled with the wiring, except for installing the hazard switch (still all good).

Sidelights operate, although one bulb had also blown (hope not a red herring).

Might it be that by 'flashing' folk, I've surged the lighting, specifically headlights dipped or full beam - or maybe one blew and surged the other to blow, too??

I would, anyway, like to upgrade them at some point, but I read in here that Club Wipac halogens require relays and I have no idea what they're all about or how to go about it.

Cheers for any thoughts.

Best,

Colin (Herne Bay)

[Pete Lewis]

the idea of relays is to reduce the load through the old switches and long cable runs and can be advantage on seal beams or bulbed it doesnt matter the bulbs

in general are a similar load to the seal beams at around the 55/60 watts   some early sealed were quite low at 35 watts but they must be a bit rare now

there are kits we can point you to off ebay that makes it easier, basicly you run a decent feed to the relay and the old wiring trigers the relay 

there can be a lot of voltage drop and you may test and find you only get 10v at the front , adding a new feed gives the lamps 14.5v and will awaken 

the old glow worms  to be far better.

do check the wiring to the column stalks  there two bunches of bullet connectors one under the dash where the stalks harness connects and the bunch in the front grill

if you are suffering a lot of bulb failure you may have a over charge problem lurking (any bulbs shows blacked glass ??) especially flasher and stop side /lamps 

Pete

 

[NonMember]

If the headlights don't work on dip then it's not because you've been flashing people - that only uses the main beam filaments. What car are we talking about here? Do you have the old "Herald-style" column stalk that selects side/main/dip or the later master switch to select side/head and a main/dip only column?

[Pete Lewis]

colins profile shows as got a  1970   1200 herald 

Pete

[NonMember]

So it does. OK, so it's the early wiring, which means it's not the master light switch that's failed (unless it's been modified, of course).

[chrishawley]

4 hours ago, Colin said:

I read in here that Club Wipac halogens require relays

The naunce is in the word 'requires': There is no necessity to use a relay with standard 60/55w H4 halogens. I've done several straight swaps substituting H4 for sealed beam units and the results have been more than adequate for a general amount of night time driving. It is optimal to have a relay for maximum illumination and longevity of the bulb, but it's not a prerequisite.

A question is whether all four elements (two main , two dip,) have all stopped functioning simultaneously or whether they've been going one by one over the course of time. If the former, it implies a a fault in the circuit needing a remedy. If a bit of titivating of the bullet connectors (as mentioned above) doen't give results it might be as easy as anything else to extract the beam units and test them by direct connection to a battery, to confirm operation, before digging deeper into the circuitry.

[SpitFire6]

1 hour ago, chrishawley said:

SNIP***********

It is optimal to have a relay for maximum illumination and longevity of the bulb, but it's not a prerequisite.

SNIP***********

Hi,

 and  is wrong. You should say OR. No relay & they will last longer.

Cheers,

Iain.

[DVD3500]

The bulb maybe but the light switch....?

[SpitFire6]

3 hours ago, DVD3500 said:

The bulb maybe but the light switch....?

Hi DVD3500,
As long as the switch operates @ more than a few percent of it's rated current, the contacts will last much, much longer than @ it's rated current.

Cheers,

Iain.

[Colin]

Hi Gents,

Many thanks for those advices; Sorry for tardy reply - I thought I had asked for notifications of replies, but didn't see any!

I think they stopped working together - suggesting a feed cabling issue.

I shall be looking at the whole lot from the stalk down (yes- a 1970 1147 - 3 position lever stalk - sides/main/dipped ((or similar order)) ).

I was under the dash when installing the hazards - might have disturbed summat . . . 

Had a quick look at the dash lights-on switch rear, under the dash, the other day. All looks intact. The column stalk feels positive and with no change to normal.

But my gut tells me there is/are some poor original wiring connections at front of bonnet - I think it has been re-connected and tucked up several times over over its 50 years!

ATM, it's all shrouded in still-sticky under-bonnet stone chip coating with insulation tape under and round the cabling. I feel there may be a few 'choc' block connectors involved, too!

I will attempt some investigation soon and report back.

[Colin]

Hi All,

Been poking around to see why I have side, but no headlights dip or full.

 

I renewed a blown sidelight bulb - both now working.

 

Can’t find any loose/broken wiring.

 

Had a look for any loose/disconnected under-dash wiring from the sidelight/main beam/dipped steering column stalk. Nothing untoward there.

 

As you all know the dash light switch is a two-position switch; 

 

- First pull position, sidelights only; 

 

 - Second position, dipped or main beam (dependent upon stalk position).

 

When you consider it's the only moving part of the whole circuit and this dash switch has pulled out and pushed in countless times (50 years old), I am wondering (even though I squirted WD40 along the switch shaft into the mechanism), if there’s wear and tear within. It’s quite slack in its two-position movement tbh.

 

But still no headlights on, full or dip, at any setting. Only sides.

 

I wonder though . . . here, might be a further clue:-

 

when the dash light switch is pulled out to the second position for full-on headlights (dipped or main beam, stalk dependent), I note the full beam, ‘jewel’ light indicator within and part of the speedo/mileometer unit is on all the time, whether the column stalk is set to main OR dip.

 

When functioning correctly, I normally only see that blue jewel light on at main beam and it should extinguish the next stalk-down position at dip.

 

I do not need ignition on to operate side/headlights as you all know.

 

Is the dash jewel light telling me there’s a dash switch fault??

 

Thoughts appreciated.

 

Regards,

Colin

[Wagger]

If you have the owners manual, the Haynes or Factory issued manual, refer to the wiring diagram. Arm yourself with a voltmeter, and trace all through one section at a time.

If the system has had a short circuit, or been overloaded with add ons in the past, the dip switch can overheat and the terminals melt their way into the plastic. Usually though, a bullet connector becomes corroded, verdigri build and it no longer conducts. The dash switch can also suffer corrosion.

[Colin]

Thanks Wagger.

My gut feeling is the switch has gone open circuit.

My Clarkes Multimeter I can't trust the readings from - it doesn't read as it should.

Trying to find a replacement switch; all the usual suspects say o.o. stock! 

[Iain T]

Colin, I wonder if someone has played with the connections at the back of the switch pull. It's something I'll be checking when I take my dash off next week to sort out the spaghetti. These cars have all been mucked around with so as Wagger said you do have to go back to basics. I'll be telling myself that many times next week..... 

Iain 

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Colin said:

 

As you all know the dash light switch is a two-position switch; 

 

- First pull position, sidelights only; 

 

 - Second position, dipped or main beam (dependent upon stalk position).

 

 

 

when the dash light switch is pulled out to the second position for full-on headlights (dipped or main beam, stalk dependent), I note the full beam, ‘jewel’ light indicator within and part of the speedo/mileometer unit is on all the time, whether the column stalk is set to main OR dip.

 

If this is a Herald (am I right??) the pull switch is one pull for lights, second pull for instrument lights. The first pull activates the power through the column switch, so all positions - full, dip or sidelights, are controlled by the column arm, not the dashboard switch. If yours works as you have stated then it's connected wrongly; in fact it's entirely possible the full beam is working through the dashboard switch and not the column which is why the blue light is always on.. is that possible?

The wires should be connected to the dashboard switch as follows: A brown/ red, S1 brown / blue 2 wires to same terminal, S2 red/ white to other terminal for instrument illumination. Is that the way yours is?