My diff is bleeding!

[Peter Truman]

The Mk2 Vitesse has two bolts as original fitment don’t know why always assumed due to Rotaflex but I don’t understand the need for the different setup

[Clive]

Yes, it seems some cars had teh single bolt, others a pair of short bolts.

I have never had an issue with the single long bolt, a couple of long extensions so I can work outside the rear wing, and if it is a bit seized, I have used those same extensions and a club hammer to give the pointy end a whack. Never failed. Then I just wind the bolt out. The pair of bolts have caused me issues a couple of times, nuts fitting on the inside so nothing to hit easily with a hammer. 

[Iain T]

Good and bad news, I can't take the car to work as they are too busy and need the space and I can't do the work here (I'd get in deep trouble with the management and adjacent cars). So I contacted Hardy Engineering who have experience with our diffs and have two hoists. They said to take it off replace seals and check internals and refit is only a few hours work. I get to blast round the M25 from traffic jam to traffic jam to Leatherhead. 

Iain 

[johny]

drill and tap for drain plug if you havent already got one? Not convinced myself as, once cleaned out inside the casing, with the miles the average car does nowadays the oil will last until the next seal change plus its another place to leak from....

[Iain T]

1 hour ago, johny said:

drill and tap for drain plug if you havent already got one?

Coins in the air, as you say somewhere to leak and I only do 2k per year. I probably will put a drain tapered grub screw in as the square drive protrudes. 

Iain 

[Pete Lewis]

at 2 k a year put a drain tray hung under the diff and empty it each season 

well its christmas  is   coming !!! im in cheap mode   Ha 

Pete

[Iain T]

13 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

at 2 k a year put a drain tray hung under the diff and empty it each season 

A good point but to date every mechanical unit, engine and gearbox, the PO had reconditioned at that now departed company in Corby had huge issues that I have since rectified so for peace of mind I'll get it checked out by a professional. 

[Paul Amey]

How bigger job is it to drop the diff out of a Vitesse mk1? Mine has oil leaks and generally looks a mess.

[Clive]

Rear up in teh air, properly supported on axle stands.

Drop the exhaust, undo prop. 

This next bit depends.... my experience is mainly with swingsprings. With those, I can undo teh 4 (in your case 6) studs on top of the diff and all stays in place. Then undo the diff to drivesghaft bolts. You may need to takle it slightly differently, maybe use a spring lifter??

Some cars have a single ong rear diff bolt, I use a ring spanner on teh nut, and a couple of extension bars so I can undo teh bolt from outside the car. It may require a UJ socket or a "wobble bar" to help alignment. Some cars, and I think Vitesse is one, use 2 smaller bolts at the rear of the diff. You should just get it all free and nuts off. Now a decent trolly jack under the diff, some tie the diff to the TJ, but if you have a good sized one you should be OK (I have never tied one) Remove the rear bolt/s, undo the front mounts and flick off the washer and rubber disc. Now lower the jack a bit, you may need a bar to "ease" the diff free, dropping it nose-down and with some wiggling and again a bar the rear mounts will slide out. Job done. 

[Paul Amey]

2 hours ago, clive said:

Rear up in teh air, properly supported on axle stands.

Drop the exhaust, undo prop. 

This next bit depends.... my experience is mainly with swingsprings. With those, I can undo teh 4 (in your case 6) studs on top of the diff and all stays in place. Then undo the diff to drivesghaft bolts. You may need to takle it slightly differently, maybe use a spring lifter??

Some cars have a single ong rear diff bolt, I use a ring spanner on teh nut, and a couple of extension bars so I can undo teh bolt from outside the car. It may require a UJ socket or a "wobble bar" to help alignment. Some cars, and I think Vitesse is one, use 2 smaller bolts at the rear of the diff. You should just get it all free and nuts off. Now a decent trolly jack under the diff, some tie the diff to the TJ, but if you have a good sized one you should be OK (I have never tied one) Remove the rear bolt/s, undo the front mounts and flick off the washer and rubber disc. Now lower the jack a bit, you may need a bar to "ease" the diff free, dropping it nose-down and with some wiggling and again a bar the rear mounts will slide out. Job done. 

ok, I got all that up to undo prop. What are swingsprings and spring lifter please?

[Clive]

29 minutes ago, Paul Amey said:

ok, I got all that up to undo prop. What are swingsprings and spring lifter please?

Swingspring is a later design of spring used on later spit/gt6, and is flatter. So easier to work with.

A spring lifter is used as some cars (certainly rotoflex, and I am unsure about mk1 vit/heralds) have a very arched spring that is still under tension when the car is jacked up, so teh spring lifter is used to well, lift the end of teh spring so it can be undone. It is a length of bar with a couple of U brackets. I make one with a lenth of scaffold pole and some exhaust clamps, but have since made a copy as per the farctory WSM. The club sells them 

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, clive said:

A spring lifter is used as some cars (certainly rotoflex, and I am unsure about mk1 vit/heralds)

Although the springs are similar, you only need the lifter for the Rotoflex cars. The swing spring suspension has enough droop and general slack to dismantle it as is.

[johny]

On my mk1 Vitesse I had to get two lengths of threaded rod which I screwed into the diff in place of two of the six spring fixing studs. These I used to release the last bit of spring tension and the spring ended up lightly pressing against the underside of the car (wheels off ground obviously). The diff could then be removed while prising the halfshaft couplings away.

When the diff is back in the threaded rods then make it much easier to pull the spring back down far enough to allow the studs to take over.

Not a bad job apart from safely lowering the diff out and then getting it back in (it goes up and then back so its rear fixings slot into the chassis)...

[Pete Lewis]

that reminds me of the diff removal as a  around 20 ish sheared the output shaft on my rusty 948  and yes boing the spring head for the spring tunnen and 

did this whilst in Dad garage witha torch found the shafts could have been removed in situ  like jonny   needed (from  distant  memory) used some method probally studs and a lot of levering to get the spring back down the studs    

realy its best left in place or take the  output shafts out and then just remove the bevel gear carrier    from the rear case   leaving the spring undisturbed

Pete

[Paul Amey]

14 hours ago, clive said:

Swingspring is a later design of spring used on later spit/gt6, and is flatter. So easier to work with.

A spring lifter is used as some cars (certainly rotoflex, and I am unsure about mk1 vit/heralds) have a very arched spring that is still under tension when the car is jacked up, so teh spring lifter is used to well, lift the end of teh spring so it can be undone. It is a length of bar with a couple of U brackets. I make one with a lenth of scaffold pole and some exhaust clamps, but have since made a copy as per the farctory WSM. The club sells them 

Right, thank you. I think I will strip everything out of the back end and replace the spring as well.  I'll be on to the shop for that tool. Thanks again.

[NonMember]

39 minutes ago, Paul Amey said:

I'll be on to the shop for that tool.

You don't need that tool for a Mk1. Save your money.

[Clive]

1 hour ago, Paul Amey said:

Right, thank you. I think I will strip everything out of the back end and replace the spring as well.  I'll be on to the shop for that tool. Thanks again.

I would borrow one, or make one. However, from what others have said, you won't be needing it.

If your spring is sitting at teh correct height, I would simply wire brush it, grease and reassemble. Getting a correctly made spring seems to be a lottery. So many are too high or low. 

[Pete Lewis]

with Jonnys suggestion of long studs  they need to be 3/8 x24 unf to screw in the diff holes   

canley sell longer studs  for use with thick spring spacers  might be enough to get a nut on a  std set up to get things back together 

then theres things like ratchet straps over the diff to pull a loose spring down ( never tried ) 

agree you only need a lifter bar for rotoflex the std drive shafts might need a help of a jack under the upright to align   the Eye bolt 

there aagin i would never drop the whole diff   thats just unwanted work  .

Pete

[Clive]

Just now, Pete Lewis said:

 

there aagin i would never drop the whole diff   thats just unwanted work  .

Pete

Pah, I did a diff change on spit in under 2 hrs the day I was doing the RBRR back in 2008. I had nightmares, thinking that as the diff needed topping up every 500 miles or so, and I was doing 2000, I may as well change the diff to the known leakfree/good one I had. I was done by 8.30am.

Saying that, swingspring is easier. And I was younger....

[Pete Lewis]

1 hour ago, clive said:

And I was younger....

amen to that     waist line and hair disapearing all add to the memories  

Pete

[Paul Amey]

4 hours ago, NonMember said:

You don't need that tool for a Mk1. Save your money.

Argh, thank you.

[Paul Amey]

4 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

with Jonnys suggestion of long studs  they need to be 3/8 x24 unf to screw in the diff holes   

canley sell longer studs  for use with thick spring spacers  might be enough to get a nut on a  std set up to get things back together 

then theres things like ratchet straps over the diff to pull a loose spring down ( never tried ) 

agree you only need a lifter bar for rotoflex the std drive shafts might need a help of a jack under the upright to align   the Eye bolt 

there aagin i would never drop the whole diff   thats just unwanted work  .

Pete

Thanks, the diff has an oil leak on the gasket as well as the pinion and it needs a good clean and paint. So I guess taking it out is justified,

[Pete Lewis]

dont go polishing it  will you  Ha !

Pete

[Peter Truman]

3 hours ago, Paul Amey said:

Thanks, the diff has an oil leak on the gasket 

My dad brought a new Volvo 164 in 1972 & just before starting a 3 week Scotland & Ireland tour we noticed an oil leak from the front timing chain cover, a damaged gasket, he didn't have time to put the car in for warranty work so I trimmed the protruding gasket off and neatly painted over the outside of the covers joint with Gasket Goo, stopped the leak it was never repaired. The car was shipped to Aus in 74 and he traded it in in 1980 for a new Toyota Crown with the works separate AC & heating controls front & rear, also radio electric seats incl lumber tension, rear bench seat where the squab height could be altered and the backrest angle changed, in boot car fridge & cabin air filters for the front and rear compartments, but funnily it didn't have a sunroof?

My Vitesse diff had a slight dampness after a strip down & a new but very thin gasket from the gasket joint no drips as such. I cleaned it well and repeated my 1072 Volvo fix thoughly cleaning the external joint & using an Aero Gasket non setting Joint material (non silicon) it appears to be working. Can you still get the orange Gasket Goo as it surface dried so would be better, can't find it here in Aus.

[Paul Amey]

23 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

dont go polishing it  will you  Ha !

Pete

I was going to have it chromed!