My diff is bleeding!

[Iain T]

Moved the car and the puddle of Redline diff oil is getting bigger. Perhaps the spirited drive back from Duxford was too spirited! I took a peak and a lorra oil around the diff. Its been weeping for some time but now its annoying. I'll get underneath to take a closer look to see if it's really oily around the pinion and check the breather. The diff doesn't clonk on deceleration or make any whining noises so I'm hopeful it's just seal(s). If I do have to take the diff out is there a cheat method or will I have to make spring holders. I've never taken a diff out of a Triumph. I remember reading somewhere you can use wood blocks either side of the diff/spring block and just remove the nose of the diff. 

Advice please. 

Iain 

[trigolf]

Iain, you can replace the pinion seal with the diff in situ,or conversly the output shaft seals  once the driveshaft is out of the way.

If the diff has to come out,you can take it out without removing the spring, as you have a Mk 2 rotoflex chassis. Check out my method posted 18th June 2018 - Diff removal ( Trigolf). Sorry, doing this reply on my phone. Cant' work out how to copy on small screen!

Trigolf

 

[Iain T]

Thanks Trigolf, I know I can replace the pinion seal in situ although I read it can be a pain. Worse case is it'll have to come out so I'll take a look at your previous post. 

Iain 

[johny]

The hardest part is probably going to be undoing the pinion nut (especially in situ) unless you have an appropriate tool for holding the flange without damaging it...

[Iain T]

Johny I take it you mean undoing the pinion nut will rotate the wheels? If I reverse onto my ramps, chock it up and nicely ask the wife to apply the brake it shouldn't move or in fact try and squash me! 

Iain 

[trigolf]

Be careful, with the pinion nut. If it has a split pin fitted, the diff has solid spacer/shims fitted to set the preload. If the pinion nut is hidden under a metal cap, be very careful. This indicates that a collapsible spacer is fitted. If thats the case record the torque fig reqd to undo it, and then retorque to exactly same fig.

[johny]

Yes has to be done right and I think with the proposed method it will still very difficult as the diff ratio increases the torque and also the axle acts like a spring which winds up so you need a lot of movement....

[Iain T]

I'm up for the challenge and good to know the first pitfalls but I won't be able to take a look for a couple of weeks. I'll report back! 

Iain 

[Iain T]

5 minutes ago, johny said:

up so you need a lot of movement....

I'll get flashbacks of 40+ years ago helping my then father in law to refit a gearbox on his Cortina. The front wheels were up on railway sleepers and I thought he had the handbrake on and chocked up. I was underneath pushing the gearbox on when I saw the car move forward and noticed there wasn't an end stop on the sleepers! I forget exactly what I said but it included not very politely putting the handbrake on. The front wheels were millimeters away from going over the sleeper and crushing me under the gearbox. To this day I still get nightmares! I wasn't happy. 

Iain 

[Pete Lewis]

fit two old bolts in the coupling and jam it with a pry bar  

trying to wind up the drive line is not a good idea to set a torqur on the nut 

if its a covered nyloc nut mark its exact position and return it to that  adding more torque will crush the spacer and can seriously increase the pinion brg. preload 

hooking the old seal out can be a challenge , take care you dont get a grab at the outer brg roller cage  ..thats happed to some  ....avoid

Pete

a guy from the factory was killed by car on bricks , a good shove on the gearbox and the bricks tipped , the jack peirced the fuel tank and the parafin heater finished him off 

[PeteH]

3 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

a guy from the factory was killed by car on bricks , a good shove on the gearbox and the bricks tipped , the jack peirced the fuel tank and the parafin heater finished him off 

There was a similar one locally a few years back. Fitter crushed when a car came off the stands. Old trick but worth using, IF you have wheels off, put them under the car, cills or chassis rails. Worst case they will mittigate any crittical damage.

Pete

[Clive]

13 hours ago, PeteH said:

There was a similar one locally a few years back. Fitter crushed when a car came off the stands. Old trick but worth using, IF you have wheels off, put them under the car, cills or chassis rails. Worst case they will mittigate any crittical damage.

Pete

And it is a handy place to store the wheels. 

I recently had my Dolomite up on tall stands, just over 2ft. And yes, I had 2 stacks of wheels/tyres, one towards each end. People forget that axle stands are vulnerable to lateral movements, and I quite like staying alive with all limbs intact. Likewise, doing som ebreaks on tegh wifes 22 year old MX5, a wheel under each sill, and an axle stand. Plus teh trolly jack was just touching the diff case. I try to mitigate risks...

[Iain T]

15 hours ago, trigolf said:

If the diff has to come out,you can take it out without removing the spring, as you have a Mk 2 rotoflex chassis.

I have a cv conversion on my car so if I support and unbolt the shock absorbers the spring should detension and sag? Can I then take the spring hanger bolts out unbolt the prop and drive shafts then remove spring/diff mounting bolts and drop the complete diff. 

Sounds sort of easy but I'm sure it'll involve a lot of cursing! 

Iain 

[Pete Lewis]

i dont adise removing the whole diff  just do the seal in situ 

its far simpler   you can do it 

Pete

[Iain T]

Thanks Pete, I'll make a decision once I take a peak. You know who restored my car for the PO and don't trust anything they did so getting someone trustworthy to inspect and tick the box would calm the worry gods. 

However if I decide to take it out is my method possible? 

Iain 

[trigolf]

Iain, I also have a cv conversion fitted now. My method works with either cv shafts or donuts. With my method, using blocks, you are keeping the spring in its fitted posn. You then remove the spring to diff mounting studs and then the diff mounting bolts and drop the diff on the trolleyjack. It saves messing about with spring lifter bars etc and minimises dismantling.

 

 

[Iain T]

33 minutes ago, trigolf said:

. It saves messing about with spring lifter bars etc and minimises dismantling.

I've read your post and apart from the inevitable stuck nuts looks like something I would tackle. I could then inspect and more easily change the seals and torque up. I've seen a couple of videos where the pinion nut is marked and number of turns noted so it goes back the same.

I've been waiting for an excuse to get a bigger trolley jack. 

Iain 

[Pete Lewis]

way back in the mid 60s i sheared a shaft on my 1959 rusty trusty 948 Herald 

without any clues i took the diff out in remote garage with a torch to illuminate 

the spring came up and hit the floor and with the diff out i found it would have been a simple job On Car 

but at 20 you are still learning the hard way 

getting the spring back down i dont remember how , but got there in the end , 

I wouldnt repeat the experience   even with brain fog  Ha !!!

Pete

 

[Iain T]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

getting the spring back down i dont remember how , but got there in the end , 

I would like to keep all my fingers. I'm not sure the management here would like me to take the diff out in our multi storey car park. Also the owners of the new Tesla and Porsche parked either side of me have been patient and I don't want to push them too far. I might ask if there's a lone car space or take it to where I worked in a nice warm factory. 

Iain 

[AlanT]

9 hours ago, clive said:

And it is a handy place to store the wheels. 

I recently had my Dolomite up on tall stands, just over 2ft. And yes, I had 2 stacks of wheels/tyres, one towards each end. People forget that axle stands are vulnerable to lateral movements, and I quite like staying alive with all limbs intact. Likewise, doing som ebreaks on tegh wifes 22 year old MX5, a wheel under each sill, and an axle stand. Plus teh trolly jack was just touching the diff case. I try to mitigate risks...

I’ve got a set of ramps and push these under the sills when the car is on stands (which are higher). Hate working underneath it.
One day, I’ll afford a lift. Perhaps…

[Pete Lewis]

lifts ..... needs to be a two post any of the scissor type just get in the way of most underside work 

Pete

[Peter Truman]

The axle stands that have the cast iron extending legs with the V fork at the top have always worried me, having worked with larger cast iron pipes for most of my working life cast iron's sudden failure after years of service is usually due to casting cracks in the cast iron from manufacture!

I know a cars weight isn't anywhere near the 100psi internal pressure of a water pipe, or its potential surges, but its always in the back of my mind call it paranoia! I use several sets of well fabricated steel axle stands, some with the tops modified to lock onto chassis jacking points pegs etc. I have a set of the cast iron ones but never used, there probably been made in PRC another X against them! I also use the tyres and ramps as added security.  

Paranoia that's when your lying on your back pulling a diff out of a mates Spit 1500 in a shed on rural property and you look over your shoulder and see a copper head snake coiled up under the cars sump!! 

The diff internals were removed leaving the diff rear case insitu by dropping the axles, removing the stub shafts, removing the diff front bracket mounting bolts to chassis lowering the front of the diff and unbolting the front to rear diff casing bolts, then the diff front with internals could then be pulled out leaving the diff rear case and spring in place. A local Triumph service mechanic told me that and it works! Probably NBG for a Rotaflex or CV arrangement.

[Iain T]

13 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

Paranoia that's when your lying on your back pulling a diff out of a mates Spit 1500 in a shed on rural property and you look over your shoulder and see a copper head snake coiled up under the cars sump

One of the joys of living in Australia! 

I shall be buying/borrowing another set of axle stands and my mate has a trolley jack with a large cup to lower the diff. 

Iain 

[trigolf]

I like to rope the diff onto the jack,with a tiny bit of slack allowed. Don't want to drop it on the floor, or more importantly, you!😉

[Pete Lewis]

I hope the long rear bolt comes out ok 

often replaced with two short ones 

Pete