Carburettors

[David23]

Hi Guys

I am new to the club and the forum.  I have just bought a 1970 Spitfire (Although questionable how much of it is actually 1970!!), and would like to have the carburettors fully stripped and serviced.  I have motorcycles and know what a difference this can make.  Can you recommend someone that does this please?  Not sure if they are standard but they are twin SUs.

If anybody is out in the Enfield area, I would be interested in meeting up when I have it running properly.

Cheers  David

[Pete Lewis]

being local to me i use the carburetor exchange in leighton buzzard   a small no frills do it properly  sort of place 

Contact – Carburetter Exchange

there is little to go very wrong that a bit of DIY cant sort out  what do think is the problem with them

just what model spitfire do you have  ???

Pete

 

[NonMember]

Around Enfield - Moordale Motors in Potters Bar really know their Triumphs and will give good advice.

[David23]

Hi Pete

Thanks for the response - I will take a look.  There is a bit of a problem starting and it won't run for long.  Checked out the floats and the choke.

You ask what model it is?  Apparently, it is a Mkl chassis, with Mkll body components and with the main body number that of a MkIII !!

Here is a photo.

 

[Pete Lewis]

if the float needle valves are clear  and the base jet height is around 3 turns down from flush the basics are going tpo work 

have you checked that once started on choke that the jet actually returns to its adjusting nut  its quite common these stick  a light prod with a finger to check the jet is returned is easy to try .

i guess this will have a pair od SU HS2 fitted    so little to go wrong 

does the pump give a well define squirt if you open a hose into a jam jar ???and crank it over ???

a picture of the breaher arrangement would be useful if possible 

what air filters are fitted  std or pancake??

spark plugs dont have any with an R in the suffix   (resistive  )

Pete

 

[David23]

1 hour ago, NonMember said:

Around Enfield - Moordale Motors in Potters Bar really know their Triumphs and will give good advice.

Thank you - I will check them out.

[David23]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

if the float needle valves are clear  and the base jet height is around 3 turns down from flush the basics are going tpo work 

have you checked that once started on choke that the jet actually returns to its adjusting nut  its quite common these stick  a light prod with a finger to check the jet is returned is easy to try .

i guess this will have a pair od SU HS2 fitted    so little to go wrong 

does the pump give a well define squirt if you open a hose into a jam jar ???and crank it over ???

a picture of the breaher arrangement would be useful if possible 

what air filters are fitted  std or pancake??

spark plugs dont have any with an R in the suffix   (resistive  )

Pete

 

Thanks Pete

It is in a friends garage and we will take another look next week.  Here is another picture

[David23]

Do these help?

[Colin Lindsay]

4 hours ago, David23 said:

You ask what model it is?  Apparently, it is a Mkl chassis, with Mkll body components and with the main body number that of a MkIII !!

Looks great! As long as you know which model you require any relevant parts for.... Dominic in my local auto factors once told me of a man who was quite concerned when he couldn't get oil filters for (I think) a Morris Minor. He could allegedly just walk in anywhere else and pick one up literally off the shelf stock. He came back with the engine number which turned out to be from a 1990s Ford - which he had known all along, but not told the man behind the counter...

[DanMi]

Whilst it looks a really good car I have to question it's provenance. The body, Chassis etc is clearly Mk1 or early Mk2 the engine 1500. There is nothing from a 1970 MK3 except possibly the commission plate. So if that plate has an FD commission number it has no place on that car. I accept that Bitsa cars are fine, but I can not see why anyone would restore an early car and then put a MK3 commission plate on it (at least not legitimately)

[David23]

Thanks for the contribution Dan. In all honesty, I know nothing about any of the things you say. I understand that there are people out there that like everything to be correct but so long as it's safe and starts I am just hoping to have some fun. I am concerned that the more I learn about these cars I may finish up wanting to put it back to an original condition but hope I am strong enough to resist! All information posted on here is gratefully received......positive or negative - I am a big boy and happy to hear all opinions/comments. 

David 

[DanMi]

That's not the point, the cars ID is wrong there is only one reason for that and that is that it is not the car on the documents ie it is a ringer (probably stolen), would you buy a car that was registered as a 2018 VW Passat which when you looked at it was clearly a 2013 model

[Josef]

6 hours ago, David23 said:

Hi Pete

Thanks for the response - I will take a look.  There is a bit of a problem starting and it won't run for long.  Checked out the floats and the choke.

You ask what model it is?  Apparently, it is a Mkl chassis, with Mkll body components and with the main body number that of a MkIII !!

Here is a photo.

 

I like the garage/library. I’d definitely do that if there was a way to keep the filth generated by doing welding and grinding off the books

[DanMi]

make up your own minds. For a MK1/2 in that condition the price alone should tell you something, It should be circa £12000   https://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-1970-triumph-spitfire/?lot=57174

[David23]

1 hour ago, DanMi said:

That's not the point, the cars ID is wrong there is only one reason for that and that is that it is not the car on the documents ie it is a ringer (probably stolen), would you buy a car that was registered as a 2018 VW Passat which when you looked at it was clearly a 2013 model

Ah I see. Well I really don't know what to say about that! I have MOT's going back 12 years and a sales receipt from a classic car dealer from more recently.  What do you think has gone on?

[DanMi]

21 minutes ago, David23 said:

Ah I see. Well I really don't know what to say about that! I have MOT's going back 12 years and a sales receipt from a classic car dealer from more recently.  What do you think has gone on?

I really don't know, but something is not right, MOTs could be from a MK3 that was crashed as could the receipts. That is not a MK3 and has no MK3 components that I can see. Maybe a MK3 was destroyed and a car stolen and given it's ID. So ye you may have MOTs for a J reg MK3 and sales docs for a J reg MK3 but the car you have is not a J reg MK3. I think that it is a stolen car that has been rung (badly)

 

[David23]

Well thank you for the input. I will wait until I get the log book and start enquiries from there.

[DanMi]

8 minutes ago, David23 said:

Well thank you for the input. I will wait until I get the log book and start enquiries from there.

If you can get to a local meet I would do so and have someone look at the car. As if I am right  (an I do not want to be but am 99% certain) you need to look at getting a refund as that car is worthless although a beautiful car

[DanMi]

I'm afraid that looking at the price paid confirms my suspisions. If that car was correct ie a genuine Mk2 with a later engine it's value would be crca £12000 sold for ££5625 which is the price of an usable but ratty 1500 not a beautiful MK2

[chrishawley]

9 hours ago, David23 said:

Carbs fully stripped and serviced

Something I notice from the 'photos is that there is no hose on the breather pipe on the right hand side of the rocker cover. This could be significant in relation to poor running.

It goes like this: If it's a 1500 engine then it should have HS4 carburettors. And Spitfire HS4 carbs each had a stubby pipe on the side with a plastic adaptor then a short run on rubber hose, then a t-piece, then joined on to the rocker cover. If the breathers on the carbs are left open then it can never run right due to the uncontrolled intake of air.

Would you be able to say whether those pipes are present on the carbs? (see photo for example). Also are the numbers on the i.d. plates (on the float chambers) legible? That could be some help as well (a common fitment was FZX 1258). MIght be that the carbs are fine.

The authenticity/provenance issue seems challenging but I'll leave that matter to those with greater knowledge than myself.

 

[Peter Truman]

Re Provenance our cars could be over 60 years old and even the youngest Mk3 over 50 so a lot of running changes could have been made, how many cars of that age have true recorded provenance. 

The seller provided the best info available re the bastardization of the car re Mk1, 2, & 3, yes it may have a 1500 engine, but is it a 1300 with 1.5in carbs? The log book may provide more info if relevant to the owner! The engine is easily checked from it's stamped number

It is what it is and the owner brought it knowing the inconsistencies and will enjoy it as a Triumph Spitfire! The price not bad for a car in that condition but there again I'm looking from far away

David 23 does it really matter if its a revamped stolen car or someone's bitsa project provided its registered and road legal just ENJOY IT!

My daughters 66 Mk2 Spitfire was first registered here in Aus in 1966, when brought by my daughter in 2001 it had just been rebuilt with a bare metal respray some of the photos clearly show Aussie AMI CKD assembly differences ie brazing vs welding yet the comm plate doesn't have a 2 prefix? AMI records weren't the best, local expert advice strongly believe its a CKD car, also the internal body panels showing full rust prevention from the AMI body dipping process. A check with the UK Heritage people advise the Comm No. was a LHD Export? but there is no evidence of a LHD to RHD conversion ie pedal and steering swap with bulkhead welding, as verified by the bare metal photo's & inspection, so much for UK records! Re chassis we know it had a replacement chassis pre the 2001 rebuild (damaged front RH) the replacement chassis is within 100 of the damaged unit which I have the tag from, the wrong RH front suspension turrant was fitted, ie Herald, Vitesse, now changed to a Spitfire unit to get the engine lower.

Yes were aware it's probably a BASTARD but that doesn't distract from our enjoyment of owning, driving and maintaining it, I rebuilt a 1500 engine to fit into it but can't bring myself to fit it, as the Mk2 1147 engine is just so enjoyable! For years we've wanted to fit a 1300 unit for the improved power but retaining the sweetness and balance, but I think were over that now, OH we did fit a J type overdrive with it's single rail gearbox internals into a 3 rail case (all ex 1500 MG Midget), and I do have a pair of rebuilt type 14 calipers too replace the original type 12's, they appear not to be a really a big improvement, but I had them & Triumph fitted them from the Mk3 on for a reason so can't be bad.

David23 check the brake calipers if Mk2 ie type 12 there are only 2 bolts holding the two halves of the calipers together if Mk3 Type 14 there's 4 bolts joining the two halves. 

 

[DanMi]

but it likely detracts from it's legitimate owner if it is a stolen car. I have no problems with Bitsas

[johny]

does anyone steal our cars these days except possibly for joy riding/vandalism? Wouldnt have thought its worth it and theyd be more interested in moderns for parts...

[Pete Lewis]

i cant see any breather stubs on the carbs   thats a bit odd it they are HS4 on  a  1500  

and hope that odd heat shield idea does fully fit the manifold face and not tucked under the flange ednge 

does it still have waxstats ( big contribance on the jet base )   not a small red elbow 

Pete

[foshi]

must be hundreds if not a lot more . before rolling tax exemption it went on a lot just swop the chassis plate over not so much now  though. does it matter it is what it is just drive it enjoy paul