Fuel spill

[micmak]

OK, so I removed the airfilter housing and dried off the spilled fuel from the face of the carbs and below too.  Then I tried to start it again, and it the car started.  Not sure why this happened today, but I digress.  As usual, it ran ok when cold.  I let it warm up and started to lean off the mixture, ¼ of a turn each time, and one carb after the other.  Well to my surprise, I had to turn the jet adjusters in 6 or 7 revolutions before the engine started to falter!!  I was amazed that it took so many turns.  I had to adjust the idle screws at times too.  I can now rev up the car and there is almost no black smoke from the exhaust!   There is still a little but no big black cloud like before.  I also noticed something with the air filter housing;  The filters, gaskets and backplate were on upside down!  I took a photo from the manual to explain.  The recessed parts that the arrows are pointing to, were facing down instead of up!   I dunno if that would have had any bearing on the issues I have had or not, but I turned them all up, the opposite way, and bolted the housing back onto the carbs.  I went for a short 4 or 5 mile drive.  The car drives ok, but like before, if I step on the gas, it hesitates a bit and kinda struggles to accelerate.  It is not a big problem, but I do think it should be more responsive.  Altogether, the car ran for a good 45 minutes or so, and it didn’t stall at all.  I turned it off a few times, and restarted it with no problem at all.  Have I solved the problem?  I really don’t know.  I might try to lean it off a smidge more tomorrow and see what happens.  As for the performance hesitation, really not sure what to do.
The first two images below show the wet carbs which dumped fuel on to the floor.  The third is my explanation of the air filter housing.

[johny]

yes the filters on the wrong way up would confuse everything as those holes allow the carb to vent to atmosphere which they need to function correctly.

The free to download workshop manual describes how to set the mixture to an initial point which is good enough for the engine to run normally so the carbs can be balanced (each doing the same amount of work). Then you can fine tune the mixture a little bit more to get it perfect👍

[Pete Lewis]

upside down filters are a def  No NO  , as johny says the holes in the front face must be allowed to breath 

as for flat acceleration  what oil is in the dashpots  must be 20/50 engine oil or straight 20 if you have any 

the damped raising of the air piston is your enrichment device to give a rich mixture when you open the throttles 

dont need to filled to the brim but must resist the raising of the air piston 

pete

[Josef]

Hesitation when you hit the accelerator hard can also be the car running too lean, so it’s also possible you went too far the other way!

[micmak]

Gentleman, thank you all for your comments.  I really DO appreciate all the ideas and suggestions.  

Johny:  I kinda assumed there was a venting purpose to those holes.  Hopefully this will make a difference going forward.  I have what I assume is an original mechanic’s workshop manual for the car.  It came along with a ton of paperwork.

 

Pete:  I have no idea what sort of oil is in the dashpots.  Actually, I have not disturbed them at all, so I don’t know what the oil level is in there.  I will check that out in the morning.

 

Josef:  I honestly don’t think I have gone too lean.  This hesitation was there before.  It has been there since I bought the car, so I suspect there is something else going on to cause it.

 

In general, I think that the guy who restored the car took a few shortcuts.  I bought the car from a classic car dealer.  He had bought it from the restorer.  Sometimes I think the restorer must have had no tools at all because there were weird things that kinda scared me from the start.  Before I took possession of the car, I asked the dealer to check it over by putting it up on the ramp and giving it a “good going over”!   He did so, and reported back that everything looked ok, but there were a “few things” that were not tightened enough. He rectified them. In the following days and weeks, I realized that the steering wheel was only hand tight.  The accelerator pedal was only hand tight onto the floor and there was no split pin which would prevent the pedal from coming completely undone from the floor bracket.   I discovered loose springs which control the hood when you open it.  Also, the brackets holding the radiator in place were also only hand tight!!!!!   Kinda scary stuff.  But in spite of all that, it is a very well-restored-looking example. 

So, is the oil correct in the dashpots?  Who knows.  

Why were the carbs set up SOO rich?  Who knows. 

Why do I need to really, really, SLAM home the driver’s door to make it stay closed?  Who knows!!!

But I am determined to get it all sorted out.  It is such a cute little car. 

 

Thank you Guys.  I really appreciate your collective expertise.

.....Mick.....

 

[Jeffds1360]

1 hour ago, micmak said:

 

Why do I need to really, really, SLAM home the driver’s door to make it stay closed?  Who knows!!!

But I am determined to get it all sorted out.  It is such a cute little car. 

 

Thank you Guys.  I really appreciate your collective expertise.

.....Mick.....

Mick. Please do not SLAM the door shut !

You will do more damage to the door catch. It just needs adjusting, cleaning and lubricating. A decent workshop manual will explain how or search on here

Big Phillips screwdriver and strong wrists required

 

 

[Josef]

2 hours ago, micmak said:

Why do I need to really, really, SLAM home the driver’s door to make it stay closed?  Who knows!!!

The Herald / Vitesse latches do wear, and need adjustment to work correctly. I also suffered on my 13/60 with the anti burst catch screws continuously coming loose. This meant the catch would move and make the door hard to close! 

[Pete Lewis]

the striker plate on the B post is easily adjusted 

set it to allow the door to aling glide over the striker

if you look at this there is very important little sliding  sprung wedge 

on the underside this stops the doors lifting  and  opening on corners 

it should slide , needs a oil to keep it moving    the springs fail and its not easy to repair  very diy .

pete

 

[micmak]

I’d like to talk more about slamming the door, but as this is a FUEL thread, I will open a new topic in the Bodywork and Fittings section. 

[Pete Lewis]

good idea but thread drift is a common factor on many posts  

no worries  you should get your clues where ever you post 

Pete

[micmak]

Ha ha!  The saga continues.  I had a look at the dashpots.  They have oil, but I have no idea why grade of oil it might be.  They are not full of oil, but I understand they are not meant to be full.  There is a suction sound when I open them and withdraw the plunger/damper, and there is good resistance when I put them back in.  

But the car won’t start today!!!!!   I didn’t try it over and over and there was no dumping of fuel.  I wonder if I might have made it too lean yesterday?   

I know all cars have their own “personality” but I used to start this car from cold by pressing the throttle down once and pulling the choke out to about ¼ or 1/3 of it’s distance.  The car always started well.  But according to the workshop manual, you should not touch the throttle and you should simply use the choke alone.  But no matter what I tried, the car would not start today. 

[Pete Lewis]

opening the throttle on choke is a waste of time   its some old gits idea but it wont work .

open them when its fired only .

you can suck dashpot oil out with a straw or turkey baster (always useful)

dashpots wont help starting problems 

a cold engine must have full choke to fire it up  is the control fully opening the choke ??

Pete

 

[johny]

This could be a long thread☹️

[Pete Lewis]

what you can do with a turkey baster for a start   

answers on a postcard

Pete

[micmak]

Ha ha, let’s not get into turkey baster fetishes or weirdness!   I will endeavor to get the oil out and replace it with 20/50.  But as you said Pete, that will have no impact on the starting of the car, so I will focus on getting the car started first and deal with the dashpots later.  

Let me pop out now and try it again by not touching the throttle and pulling out the choke all the way.  Yes, the choke does indeed fully open the choke assembly. Give me 5 minutes, and I’ll report back…….

[micmak]

Well, I have to say, I am learning SOO much with this little car.  I gave it full choke and no throttle, and it started!   So, I am assuming that I was able to start it before with a partial choke because it was running so rich?  Now that it is leaned out, it simply needs more choke/more fuel to start?  Does that all make sense?   I had to let it run longer on full choke before it would idle.  I pushed the choke in too soon twice and it stalled.  But eventually, I left the choke on a bit longer and in the end when it warmed up, the car idled without the choke.   So that procedure has changed from how it used to start.  OK then!

Progress, Gentlemen, making progress.

 

[Gully]

8 minutes ago, micmak said:

 

Well, I have to say, I am learning SOO much with this little car.  I gave it full choke and no throttle, and it started!   So, I am assuming that I was able to start it before with a partial choke because it was running so rich?  Now that it is leaned out, it simply needs more choke/more fuel to start?  Does that all make sense?   I had to let it run longer on full choke before it would idle.  I pushed the choke in too soon twice and it stalled.  But eventually, I left the choke on a bit longer and in the end when it warmed up, the car idled without the choke.   So that procedure has changed from how it used to start.  OK then!

Progress, Gentlemen, making progress.

 

That all makes sense!

My GT6 was also running rich when I first had it and I went through the same change in start procedure when it was leaned off.

Gully

[micmak]

19 minutes ago, Gully said:

That all makes sense!

My GT6 was also running rich when I first had it and I went through the same change in start procedure when it was leaned off.

Gully

Ahh, great stuff.  Thanks for that, Gully.

[daverclasper]

Once, I fitted a filter on upside down on one carb. Car would run ok for a few miles, then terrible

Edited October 3, 2023 by daverclasper

[micmak]

1 hour ago, daverclasper said:

Once, I fitted a filter on upside down on one carb. Car would run ok for a few miles, then terrible

Really?  Well that was the first sign of trouble for me; the car was ok for a while and then it wouldn't idle, it drove badly, and finally died and wouldn't restart.  It was getting way too much fuel and then I noticed almost by accident, that the filters were upside down on both carbs.   I have not driven the car more than 3 or 4 miles since leaning out the fuel and correcting the filter assembly.  Maybe I'll take it for a drive tomorrow if it's dry.

[daverclasper]

1 hour ago, micmak said:

Really

Definitely. I had done some ignition work and also changed the air filters, though wrongly assumed it must be ignition causing the problem so I was chasing that for a while with same symptom, every time I took for a test drive (ok for a few miles then terrible).

I then remembered the air filters, and that was the problem on the one carb, sorted straight away and ran fine.

I wasn't as knowledgeable then, if I had looked at the plugs then I'm sure the the 3 from that carb would have been very sooty/wet and would have pointed to carb issue, rather than ignition  

[daverclasper]

1 hour ago, micmak said:

since leaning out the fuel and correcting the filter assembly.

Maybe too lean now, if the issue was the filters etc upside down?

[micmak]

Before I tackle the rear body tub re-positioning, (see Driver’s door thread), I decided to take the car out for a little drive for the first time since making the recent carb adjustments.   It drove ok.  Only ok.  There is a serious hesitation when I accelerate in any gear.   I don’t know if I am imagining it, but in 4^th, when I was up to 55 or 60 mph, the hesitation seemed less noticeable when I stepped on the throttle.   I stopped a couple of times and car idled well, although I had it a bit high, but that is easily corrected. I turned it off, went into a shop, and when I returned it started perfectly.  So, the fuel problem is definitely improving.  Before any of this, it would run nicely for 10 or 15 minutes, and then run badly before sometimes dying and not re-starting.  But the hesitation when I accelerate, is still there.  I have not yet removed the oil in the dashpots and replaced it with 20/50.  That will be my next little job.   Could ignition timing be causing this hesitation too?  Or should I not go there yet, and sort out the dashpot oil first?

 

[Pete Lewis]

dash pot check is easy   its fundamental to flat spots 

timing is obviously important if you have no tools /bulbs /strobes etc then use the ears

undo the dizzy clamp and with engine idling turn the dizzy , advancing will speed up the idle

retarding will slow the idle    you aim at turn to get the best fastest idle  then back it off a bit ,so not quite best

take for a drive if it Pinks( do use 97ron fuel)  back it till it drives without sounding like a can of marbles  when under load .

again one spanner and have your ears on  ...simpluzle 

vac units can fail but they are to aid economy not performance so when cruising you advance to an optimum to use less fuel    the vac unit has no effect at idle .

Pete

Edited October 4, 2023 by Pete Lewis

[micmak]

I tried as best I could to remove the oil from the dashpots.  The turkey baster was a bit too big.  I tried adapting a pen onto it and eventually I used a piece of plastic tubing. There is only a drop of oil in there – I expected much more.  The manual says to top up the oil to within ¼ inch of the end of the rod in which the damper operates.  I did so, with 20/50.  This was probably less than a teaspoonful of oil!  Anyway, I took the car for a little drive.  The stumbling is still very much apparent. Maybe I leaned it out too much the other day?  Maybe I will give it a smidge more fuel in the morning and see if it improves.  If not, I'll return the fuel mix to where it is now, and I'll try adjusting the timing.

Edited October 4, 2023 by micmak