Fuel spill

[Gully]

18 hours ago, micmak said:

 

The pump does indeed look new.  The car had a full restoration and has only done just a few hundred miles.  I will take the bowls off tomorrow and check once again for slivers around the needle valves.

If making gaskets out of cornflake boxes will suffice, then that will be my next step after tomorrow’s sliver search!

.....Mick.....

The slivers sit in the fuel lines and move against the float valves, then float back again - they rarely make it into the bowls. With the carb supply pipes removed, turnover the engine (or use the priming lever) to flush through the pipes. Then vaseline the connections before pushing the pipes back onto the carbs.

Gully

[johny]

This is from the TR6 workshop manual for the carb version which has the same fuel pump as the Vitesse...

[micmak]

Wow, what an afternoon.  I disconnected the fuel lines to the carbs.  I took the bowls off both carbs.  Both float valves are freely moving and were the right way up - not upside down.  I removed the needle valves.  There was no fibre washer on them.  There was just an aluminum-type washer. It was a crush-type washer.   I did what will horrify some of you and others will shrug your shoulders;  I used plumbers tape to “make” a gasket in addition to the aluminum one. I blew out the chamber where the needle valve sits and I was able to see with my trusty mirror and a light that the whole port, right out to where the fuel hose connects to the carb, was clean and clear on both carbs.   I reassembled the valves and bowls.  I had trouble getting the brass fuel jet back into position on both carbs.  I had to loosen the adjuster right out so my nice even idle that I had yesterday will be gone again!!!   As I was trying to get the jet back in on the LHS carb, I dropped it.  My question now is:  how far can a tiny O-ring travel?   The little O-ring that goes where the arrow is pointing in my pic below is now missing!  I spent over an hour crawling around the garage floor looking for it.  Did it roll away into a corner?  Is it caught in the chassis somewhere?  Who knows.  So I guess I need to go online and order a whole kit to make sure that I get the right sized O-ring!  This very effectively halted my progress today.  I hate that I have to suddenly stop now and send off for a kit and wait for a week or more.  Arrrrgh!!!!

Edited November 29, 2023 by micmak

[Pete Lewis]

they are quite dedicated 0 rings  yes they can be escape artists , most would buy kits from Burlen

if you buy a online or Aldi box of hundreds of sizes none will fit 

you really didnt need to remove the jet hsg to release the float chamber  it just slips over its  0 ring 

pleased the floats right way up  did you check the 18mm height to the base dimension ??

Pete

[daverclasper]

4 hours ago, Gully said:

Then vaseline the connections before pushing the pipes back onto the carbs.

Yes, I always do that and try to fit the hose straight on. Also I have put a bit of a chamfer on the metal pipe ends 

[micmak]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

 

  did you check the 18mm height to the base dimension ??

Pete

Dammit!  I forgot to do that. 

.....Mick.....

[micmak]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

 

you really didnt need to remove the jet hsg to release the float chamber  it just slips over its  0 ring 

Pete

It wasn't too inclined to slip over the O-ring and I was kinda afraid to force it, so I removed the jet housing too just to be in the safe side.  Can you lubricate that particular o-ring?  When it is dry it doesn't like to cooperate.

[Pete Lewis]

bit of vaseline works well

and you mentioned ptfe tape      its not good on petrol as its a byproduct and many find it dissolves in petrol

the alloy washers under the float needle will be fine fitted dry 

pete

[micmak]

2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

 

the alloy washers under the float needle will be fine fitted dry 

pete

Ah, ok.   I thought it NEEDED or HAD-TO-HAVE a fibre washer.  OK, that’s good to know.  Now I need to try to locate a new O-ring.  Burlen don’t seem to have the O-ring or a kit.  I tried Rimmer, Canley, Ang, COH Baines.  Nobody seems to do kits for my carbs.  Gonna visit my mechanic in the morning to see if he can provide a suitable O-ring.

[Dick Twitchen]

Try James Paddock for your spares, they have carb items listed and supplied me very quickly via a phone call.

Dick

[Ian Foster]

You could also try Geoff at Gower and Lee, my go-to for Stromberg bits.

The aluminium needle valve washer is standard in all the kits I have used. Ideally replace each time the valve is replaced, but probably not critical.

I use a smear of red rubber grease to lubricate o rings and fuel lines for reassembly. (ends of fuel lines should be checked for burs)

Ian

[Iain T]

I used these people who are very helpful.

 

Carburetter Exchange
28F High Street
Leighton Buzzard
Bedfordshire
LU7 1EA

For other enquiries you can contact us on:

Tel: +44 (0)1525 371369
Email: sales@carburetterexchange.co.uk

Iain 

[Pete Lewis]

 

i use carb echange as its very local to me

small company  with dedicated staff 

and  burlen  website is a bit miffed but under strombergs    CD Stromberg Service kits | Zenith Caburetters (zenithcarb.co.uk)

[Iain T]

11 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

burlen  website is a bit miffed but under strombergs    

I agree that's why I've always phoned them to make sure I bought the correct part. 

Carb exchange are excellent but phone lines only open for a limited time. 

Iain 

[micmak]

I went to my local mechanic this morning.  He didn’t have the correct size O-ring.  He recommended a local motor factors that I wasn’t aware of.  I went there, and he had the correct O-ring.  Yay!  So now I am home.  If I can withstand the cold this afternoon, I will go out and try to reassemble the carbs and connect the fuel lines, and at least get back to where I was a couple of days ago, with a running car that has overflowing carbs!   

[dougbgt6]

Mick you don't have to do it just because we are watching. 

In fact I'm going out in a minute, so if you could postpone till tomorrow? 

Doug

[Pete Lewis]

they only let Doug out on a Thursday !!!

Pete

[Chris A]

22 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

they only let Doug out on a Thursday !!!

Pete

On his own or with a minder?

[micmak]

39 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

Mick you don't have to do it just because we are watching. 

In fact I'm going out in a minute, so if you could postpone till tomorrow? 

Doug

Ha ha!!! I love it.  No, I am not doing it because anyone is watching.  If I get it to the point I was at a few days ago, where it runs and eventually overflows, I will be kinda satisfied for a little while.  But I hate the idea of leaving it as it is now, with carbs half dis-assembled and the fuel lines propped up at such an angle that I cannot close the bonnet, and tools all scattered over the floor and the bench.  The poor little car deserves a little more respect than to abandon it in such a dismantled state.

.....Mick.....

[micmak]

So, today I reassembled the carbs.  I reattached the fuel lines.  I wondered what was the best way to tune the carbs and get the correct fuel mix.   I turned in the jets fully in, and then backed them off 3 turns before trying to start the car. It started but it needed FULL choke.  I figured it was too lean if it needed SO much choke, so I gradually gave each carb a little more juice. By the time it had warmed up to normal temperature, it was idling reasonably well.  I turned the jets a tiny bit more to give them a smidge more fuel.  It idled nicer.  All this was with no air filter attached.  I was waiting for a fuel dump and I wanted to see it first hand with NO air filter in the way.  I let it idle for about 15 minutes occasionally revving it up.  No over spill.  I decided that I had better attach the air filter as it might affect the fuel mix if the air had to be pulled through two filters as opposed to wide-open unfiltered air supply.  I attached the filters with the engine running and there was no difference in the idle sound. I did Pete’s little “test” of raising the spring-loaded pin at the side of the carbs.  There was a VERY slight lowering in idle, but so little, it is hardly worth mentioning.  So I figured it is not far from ideal.  An ideal idle!😆   I let it sit there running for over a half hour in total.  I revved it up a few times.  No overspill of fuel at all.  

So, I am confused.  Have I cured this fuel dumping issue, somehow?  

Was there a tiny weep in one of the needle valves and by adding a home-made washer of PTFE tape, I stopped it?

Is one of the needle valves defective, resulting in it sticking open occasionally, and it just happened to behave today? 

Was there a tiny sliver or other dirt that I didn’t actually see, but I cleared it out with all my prodding and poking around over the last few days?

I don’t know whether to consider the problem to be solved or not.  I didn’t drive the car today.  I will do so as soon as this cold spell passes and we get a reasonably mild day. But I am pleased to have the car back together.

[micmak]

[micmak]

[Iain T]

Good work well done! 

It doesn't leak but am I right in saying you used ptfe tape in the float valve thread or under the aluminium washer? Just make sure none can escape and create another problem.

As to tuning it sounds OK but visually the rear air piston appears slightly higher than the front. First make sure oil in both dampers. If you have a carb synchroniser slacken off the throttle joint between the front and rear carbs and adjust air flow using the meter until the flow is the same at tick over. Tighten the joining piece and zoom up the road for a test drive!

Iain 

[micmak]

Yes Iain, I DID use PTFE tape around the needle valve.  But I didn’t just lash it on casually.  I carefully made a “cover” for the existing washer, and I made sure to tidy off any scraggly ends that might have come loose and lodged into the valve causing it to stick open.

I noticed the rear air piston being slightly higher than the front too, but as it seemed to be running quite well, I left it alone.  I put new oil in the dampers a few weeks ago. I have no access to a meter to measure the air flow, so I really can’t do the adjustment you described.  All I can do is the old-school visual and sound test.   At this stage, I am a bit less concerned about getting the adjustment perfect, and more concerned about whether one of the carbs will dump fuel again or not.  Will it dump fuel tomorrow or will it behave for weeks and weeks and then suddenly dump fuel again?  I guess only time will tell.

.....Mick.....

[Pete Lewis]

you can balance the throttles mechanically without any special tools , as was done at the factory in the day

loosen one of the coupling clamps 

back off the idle screw and turn in to just !!!   touch the casting  wind it in 1.5 turns

do this on both then retighten the coupling clamp 

if the idle is too fast back off both screws equal amounts 

this just sets both throttle plates in the same basic position 

if you noticed a small drop in idle with filters on then its a a little weak 

really  all you need to do with the jet adjuster is turn it to get the best fastest idle

somewhere between sputter being weak  and wooly going too rich 

you ears will tell you 

Pete

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Pete Lewis