Any advice ? Lack of power on steep hills

[Iain T]

It looks like the type of filter you can clean. Perhaps it's restrict fuel flow? 

Iain 

[Paul H]

2 minutes ago, Iain T said:

It looks like the type of filter you can clean. Perhaps it's restrict fuel flow? 

Iain 

Will do - thanks 

Paul

 

[Iain T]

I think the ends unscrew to clean. 

Iain 

[Paul H]

Out of interest what should oil consumption be in a Vitesse 2 litre ?

Paul 

[Pete Lewis]

oil consumption figures given by triumph were horrendous i guess to waive any warranty ???

much worse than your 450/ltr   is the smiths valve working OK no holes in the diaphragm ???? or misplaced 

non of that will give you unexpected power loss      even knackered rings will be a progressive loss not just up hill 

seems more towards a fueling problem than any wear and tear

from my experience the 1600 never needed any top up  and the current 2000mk2  probably uses 50ml /1000 so needs a little pretty in frequently 

 

Pete

Edited September 25, 2023 by Pete Lewis

[Dick Twitchen]

1 hour ago, Iain T said:

I think the ends unscrew to clean. 

Correct and while at it, may be an optical illusion, but the hose from the pipe to the filter seems to reduce markedly restricting fuel supply.  I had some similar symptoms in the GT6 and peering inside the tank found a piece of plastic film/bag floating around which would sometimes block the outlet pipe.

Dick

[Steve P]

1 hour ago, Dick Twitchen said:

may be an optical illusion, but the hose from the pipe to the filter seems to reduce markedly restricting fuel supply

I thought that, never seen a glass filter with plastic reducers like that. What diameter supply pipe is used Paul?

If it`s Herald size then fuel starvation could definitely be an issue.

Steve

[Iain T]

On my Vitesse it's 1/4" out the tank and the PO ran 5/16" to the carb pipes which are 1/4". I fitted an adapter on the carb pipes to the 5/16" hose . My filter is by the tank and has 1/4" one end and 5/16" the other. Bought from carbuilder solutions. 

Iain 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Iain T

[Bfg]

The oil on the spark-plugs' threads is excessive, or are you using grease or Coppaslip on those ?  If the plugs are rather old then their compression washers are often flattened beyond being an effective gasket. New plugs might offer a slight improvement in compression. Unless your engine has experienced preignition it might be worthwhile swapping those plugs out for a hotter grade, to burn off carbon deposits (self-cleaning) and avoid fouling.

Your fuel filter looks rather petite to my eyes (relative to the size of the fuel pipe) ..for a 2-ltr six cylinder, but the plugs do not indicate lean running.

I wonder what grade of fuel you were using up the mountains, and if an octane booster / additive would be worthwhile, if only for that sort of driving.  Puttling around town doesn't require higher octane but with worn rings and steep hills it could be beneficial. 

Pete

[Paul H]

1 minute ago, Bfg said:

The oil on the spark-plugs' threads is excessive, or are you using grease or Coppaslip on those ?  If the plugs are rather old then their compression washers are often flattened beyond being an effective gasket. New plugs might offer a slight improvement in compression. Unless your engine has experienced preignition it might be worthwhile swapping those plugs out for a hotter grade, to burn off carbon deposits (self-cleaning) and avoid fouling.

Your fuel filter looks rather petite to my eyes (relative to the size of the fuel pipe) ..for a 2-ltr six cylinder, but the plugs do not indicate lean running.

I wonder what grade of fuel you were using up the mountains, and if an octane booster / additive would be worthwhile, if only for that sort of driving.  Puttling around town doesn't require higher octane but with worn rings and steep hills it could be beneficial. 

Pete

Hi Pete ive got 2 filters , 1 before the Huco & 1 before the Carbs , Fuel is Momentum E5 or equivalent . Ive changed the plugs to see if there's improvement . The journey back has no big hills so as long as i dont push her too much should be ok to get back to Suffolk . Speed being 50 - 55 occasionally 60 - with ref range 2800 to 3200 - i do have OD . Thats oil you see on the plugs . Pre Ignition - Is this the same as Run on after switch off ? I dont get this 

Paul  

[Paul H]

2 hours ago, Iain T said:

On my Vitesse it's 1/4" out the tank and the PO ran 5/16" to the carb pipes which are 1/4". I fitted an adapter on the carb pipes to the 5/16" hose . My filter is by the tank and has 1/4" one end and 5/16" the other. Bought from carbuilder solutions. 

Iain 

Its standard pipework and Gates Barricade for a Vitesse apart from joining sections for the Fuel Filter . Its been the same system for the past 4 years 

Paul 

[Iain T]

7 minutes ago, Paul H said:

ts standard pipework and Gates Barricade for a Vitesse apart from joining sections for the Fuel Filter . Its been the same system for the past 4 years 

I don't think the pipe and hose is your problem especially as its been working fine to date. Has cleaning the filter made a difference? 

Iain 

[Paul H]

4 minutes ago, Iain T said:

I don't think the pipe and hose is your problem especially as its been working fine to date. Has cleaning the filter made a difference? 

Iain 

The filter is not high quality and concerned it might leak or break the glass if mucked about with . Doesn’t look like it’s restricting fuel.  Plan to clean when I get back . The issue currently is only on big hills and nothing like than on my way back to Suffolk 

Paul

[Bfg]

14 hours ago, Paul H said:

Hi Pete ive got 2 filters , 1 before the Huco & 1 before the Carbs , Fuel is Momentum E5 or equivalent . Ive changed the plugs to see if there's improvement . The journey back has no big hills so as long as i dont push her too much should be ok to get back to Suffolk . Speed being 50 - 55 occasionally 60 - with ref range 2800 to 3200 - i do have OD . Thats oil you see on the plugs . Pre Ignition - Is this the same as Run on after switch off ? I dont get this 

Paul  

Naturally one or both fuel filters being clogged would restrict fuel flow, which would only be noticeable under heavy engine loads.  Your cruising speeds are low (perhaps the car would benefit from a good blast now and then ..an Italian tune up ! ) and so the fuel energy required to climb mountains might have been the first sign.  Of course, fuel filters also give us an insight to what might be in the fuel feed pipes.!

E5 ought to run fine in in your car ..which is not highly tuned nor driven hard.

Pre-ignition is not the same as run-on.  It is when the fuel ignites before the spark plug fires, or when the flame burns too quickly, or a combination of both.  In the first scenario it is like a diesel, and in extreme cases the engine can rattle like an old diesel engine being started with easy-start. It can happen when the tip of the sparkplug, or carbon deposits within the combustion chamber, glow red to white hot.  Fuel has an instantaneous-ignition / flash-point temperature and those hot-spots pre-ignite the fuel still being drawn into the engine (and before the distributor triggers the electrical discharge).  The most dramatic indication is a flash of flame through the carburettor ..because the inlet valve is still open when the big bang happens.

If however the valve is closed, and the bang happens too soon then the piston can be in the wrong position to be pushed downwards. The stresses within the combustion chamber, on the top of the piston and therefore through the con-rod, can be immense.  

Much the same can happen when fuel particles are very tiny, which can happen with poor grades of fuel or when gaseous spirits like easy-start or nitro-oxide are introduced.  Then the burn rate / the flame-front from the spark happens too quickly and pressure builds up before the piston is in an optimum position to start its descent.

Advance your ignition timing too far and you'll find the engine difficult to start, and noisily kicking back against the starter motor (very much more obvious on a motorcycle with kick-start !). The engine might start and run but under load you'll hear pinking (pre-detonation) ringing through the engine. 

I doubt though if you have these problems with your car, otherwise you'd have noticed and mentioned them, so to swap to the next hotter grade of spark-plug shouldn't be an issue.

Pete

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Bfg

[Iain T]

59 minutes ago, Paul H said:

The filter is not high quality and concerned it might leak or break the glass if mucked about with

Good call! 

[Dick Twitchen]

The filter looks identical to the one I have, courtesy of the TSSC shop 15 years ago, and provided you do not go mad will strip and clean easily.

Dick

[Paul H]

Update: the return journey back from the Wirral went fine . No lack of power in fact took note from BFG and used the OD less and even hit 4k in 4th 😱quite enjoyed it . Only issue I had was the Speedo stopped working . It was swinging about a lot and the screen washer stopped working for some reason.  All in all a 700 mile trip. Next week plan to check the plugs, recalculate oil consumption and do a compression test and see if there’s blue smoke . Will the smoke be evident on acceleration ? 
Thanks again for all your input 

Paul 

[johny]

as I say when the smoke is produced can help diagnose where its coming from: normally running = rings/bores, puffs on acceleration after overrun = valves/guides

oh and you havent got a rocker oil feed kit fitted have you? 

[Pete Lewis]

smoke from worn engine generally lift off/throttle back then open will generate a plume of blue 

can be from worn valve guides  or rings not  a disaster 

a continuous trail of blue is its very tired 

[Paul H]

Just now, johny said:

as I say when the smoke is produced can help diagnose where its coming from: normally running = rings/bores, puffs on acceleration after overrun = valves/guides

oh and you havent got a rocker oil feed kit fitted have you? 

No I haven’t 

Paul

[johny]

I think a worn out engine is quite unusual in our cars as back in the day they rotted well before this could happen or if cossetted the crank bearings failed and it needed a regrind so the entire engine would be overhauled at the same time....