dazmatic Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 Hi all, My father has a Triumph Vitesse 2 Litre. It's been sat for a while unfortunately due to ill health and I'm hoping to get it back on the road. I went over at the weekend and ran a few tests, got the engine turning over, all the brakes are free, even got the engine running which was great! However, when trying to move the car the clutch was rock hard. The pedal is loose and linkage is free up to the master cylinder, I even loosened the union at the master and pumped the pedal to test whether it was the master cylinder or slave/clutch stuck. Unfortunately, the pedal didn't move with the loose union so I can only conclude the master cylnder has corroded and siezed. For you knowledgable folk out there, is there a trick to potentially free the master cylinder - even if it's just enough to move the car a few meters onto the driveway - or will it be a full strip/rebuild of the clutch master? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 Heres the drawing from the manual so its very likely the piston has rusted at the front end of the master cylinder so jamming it in the bore. All I can suggest is brute force to break it free by removing the operating rod and tapping the piston with something. Obviously the hydraulic side will have to be disconnected at same time and theres a risk the rusty piston will terminally damage the bore but a new master cylinder isnt expensive... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazmatic Posted January 21 Author Report Share Posted January 21 That's great, appreciate that. I literally just need to get it into gear to drive off the garden, and then into reverse to get back up the drive. The rest can be tackled once it's back onto terrafirma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 Well bit of WD40 squirted in and give it a tap - might work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 (edited) Sorry, Daz, no! There are ways to free a 'frozen clutch', where the disused clutch plate has rusted to the flywheel, but it sounds as if your master cylinder has seized. If it's that seized, then a rebuild may require sleeving to restore a smooth enough bore, that will cost more than a new one. See: https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID007803 John PS Johny, among the 2001 uses of WD40, that of penetrating oil is not one of them! Daz might try with a properly designed product. I've had success (not with brake cylinders) with Innotec Deblock X5. Edited January 21 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 yes I know but its better than nothing and is what most people have to hand. Anyway whatever people put on they never wait long enough for it to work so its all academic 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puglet1 Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 As JohnD said, it could be the clutch rusted onto the flywheel but as he says it sounds like your master cylinder is seized. Many years ago, my boss at the time had a V12 E type which had the clutch seized onto the flywheel. I had the great pleasure of freeing it off by starting the car in gear, keeping the clutch fully depressed and stomping up and down on the throttle. It was on a secluded cobbled street in Bristol. (Near Redcliffe street). The wheels were spinning up until the clutch freed and the rev counter hit its limit……. That was great fun for a chap in his late 20’s at the time 😊. Best of all, he gave me a tip for doing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 The clutch plate may also be stuck but the first problem is a seized master cylinder. I very much doubt that even if it could be freed it would hold fluid and the slave will likely be knackered as well. I would just get a load of friends around and push it. Then get new cylinders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazmatic Posted January 22 Author Report Share Posted January 22 (edited) I suspect the plate might be stuck also, but we'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Unfortunately friends are few where they are so not really an option I'm afraid. Would applying a bit of heat to the cylinder help? Not open flame, but heat gun perhaps, just to warm it up and allow for a little wiggle room. Edited January 22 by dazmatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 I would doubt that the cylinder would hold pressure even if it did free it. Trying can do no harm as if the cylinder has seized it really needs replacing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 Heat? If there is one fluid MORE inflammable than petrol, it's brake fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazmatic Posted January 22 Author Report Share Posted January 22 40 minutes ago, JohnD said: Heat? If there is one fluid MORE inflammable than petrol, it's brake fluid. Hence why I say no open flame. I'm not looking to cook the cylinder, merely warm it up and allow for some expansion, presumably it's aluminium cylinder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 yes a bit of warmth cant do any harm to expand the aluminium. Probably not much holding the piston and it just needs to be broken free... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 kettle of boiled water seems more sensible to heat the M cyl. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 If you get the MC sorted and the clutch is still stuck, then heat works, just the heat from an engine. Jack the rear wheels off the ground, VERY securely chock the front wheels, and start the engine. Let it run until well warmed up. This freed up my 13/60 clutch last year in no time; probably a combination of heat and vibration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 has the master cylinder got fluid in it or is it just empty and full of a sort of powder. If no fluid it is probably beyond saving, mine was like this after a few years laid up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazmatic Posted January 22 Author Report Share Posted January 22 It has fluid in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 trouble is brake fluid Dot4 does absorb moisture , even in storage as the cap breathes it allows moist air in and corrosion soon starts the rule is change fluid every 2 years Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazmatic Posted January 22 Author Report Share Posted January 22 Indeed, that was my first train of thought - presumably DOT5 would be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 I would just take the cap and pushrod off, spray it with your lubricant of choice and leave for an hour, and then whack the piston with a suitable drift, it`s probably knackered but may work. Boiling water on it may aid movement before you whack it. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 The "jack up the rear and let it run in gear until it let's go" does work, but an axle stand that is not absolutely stable could catapult you into the back wall/garage door (choose disaster of taste). If possible, a safer solution is a tow start in gear, followed by driving about with your foot on the clutch. The opposing forces of rolling resistance and engine will very soon release the clutch, so be ready to unthrottle ASAP. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 10 hours ago, dazmatic said: I suspect the plate might be stuck also, but we'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Unfortunately friends are few where they are so not really an option I'm afraid. Would applying a bit of heat to the cylinder help? Not open flame, but heat gun perhaps, just to warm it up and allow for a little wiggle room. `Er indoors Hair dryer?. and a good smack with a hammer and non ferrous punch. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 disc seized . just use engine heat and give it a sharp take off you can engage gears with engine off then crank it up with no walls or ditches about get ready to turn it off , gears will select if you balance the revs and use a firm selection . can be good fun for the blood pressure ha! {Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 Ever watch the Italian Job where they're trying to load the Minis into the bus by driving them up ramps? Same thing. Be ready to brake hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted January 23 Report Share Posted January 23 (edited) 18 hours ago, dazmatic said: presumably DOT5 would be better? Yup, very much better. You can get a DOT3/4 tester on FleaBay for £5. Uncle Pete has one, he lines up the H & B faithful and tests them on club night, charges £1 a go. Brake Fluid Tester Pen with 5 LED Indicators Hydraulic Liquid Moisture Analyzer | eBay Doug Edited January 23 by dougbgt6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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