D-Type OD. Running out of ideas

[Clive]

8 hours ago, classiclife said:

Hello Shaun.

1.375" is very narrow for 150's - I have measured a few spares in my garage and they are reading between 1.483" and 1.491"; are you sure you have read it correctly and not a typo error ??

If they are 1.375" that is going to reduce your delivery even more so; as such the quest for a set of 175's really should be on your shopping list at some stage. The undersized carbs will have a significant effect on the engines performance and of course will erase any other benefits you have tried to secure. 

I had a quick look on EBay and if nothing else it is a useful reference point sometimes. The carbs in the link I have attached are for a Triumph TR7 (tab 3654) and emission controlled - but the point of the link is to show just how much extra delivery your 2.5 engine will receive when you look at the size of the butterflies; very significant when you compare that to your current 150's. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STROMBERG-175-CD-SEVX-CARBS-PAIR-N-O-S-/332367937637?epid=1146135794&hash=item4d62ac4065:g:cQUAAOSwiLdV-9hC

Regards.

Richard.

Richard, those will poke through the bonnet! Thge only way todoitis the short dashpot SU HS6 (from a dolomite sprint)on an opened out GT6 manifold. Honest!! Vitesse has rather more space.

 

Scrapman has a point, odd stuff has happened in the past. Stroke can be measured using a length of rod/down down a plughole....

 

[Guest]

Hello Clive.

I fully agree, my point was the difference between 1.5" and 1.75" inlet openings having an effect on the potential performance due to the incorrect carbs in situ at the moment.

As you say the HS6 (1 & 3/4") is the only option to counter the lack of carb head room.

Regards.

Richard.

 

 

[ShaunW]

17 hours ago, classiclife said:

Hello Shaun.

1.375" is very narrow for 150's - I have measured a few spares in my garage and they are reading between 1.483" and 1.491"; are you sure you have read it correctly and not a typo error ??

1.375 across the inlet on the filter side. Not sure about across the butterfly. Shopping list items duly noted. I'll talk to you about it more when the time comes. 

[ShaunW]

On 26/09/2017 at 8:32 AM, Pete Lewis said:

You have checked the stroke , and lever settings , you have also checkeed the small hole in the spool valve , and looked at the filter thats a better start than many manage,

What you need is a short run with tunnel off and remove the cap nut on the top with the ball spring and spool underneath the cap/plug

Oil should pump out of this open port.  Its the place to add a pressure gauge , but if you get some squirts when the pump is working it shows the pump is attempting to pressurise.

Update :
7. Removed the plug on the operating valve. Removed spring, shoe and ball but not the spindle. Ran car up to 30mph....no sign of any oil.

Area of doubt : The car was running on rear axle stands which (by my calcs) reduced the level of the oil in the OD by about 10mm

Next action: Maybe run the car on front & rear stands or on the road to eliminate concern over oil level?
Then 8. Remove plug on the bottom to access the pump valve & check spring & ball/seat

After that I suposed it's OD out and investigate along these lines.....

On 26/09/2017 at 8:32 AM, Pete Lewis said:

....been rebuilt and some plonker has left the pump cam woodruff key out of the cam drive and its not being turned by the mainshaft

When it's fixed and I write this up, I hope my "10 steps to finding an OD fault" will be useful because at this rate I think I'm going all the way to step 10.

Pete, do you think my test #7 was OK ? Not ideal but hopefully full - 10mm would be ok. I don't have a cross section drawing to visualise where the pump draws from.

[dougbgt6]

Shaun, Just to let you know, Pete is on a surfing holiday in Cornwall, he may respond when it's raining, but not when surfs up!

[AidanT]

Doug  that's a vision I could do without thanks ?

 

Aidan

 

[Pete Lewis]

Surf and turf is all  I know , went on a bus  today park and ride at st ives  first time since short trousers. 

 

10mm wont affect much or going up porlock hill  would kill it .

Of the holes on mount plate line up you can remove the PRV  ,  often the hex caps of the underside plugs have been plonkered in previous life

Ill put a pint on the pump cam

 

Pete

[ShaunW]

On 03/10/2017 at 4:32 PM, Pete Lewis said:

10mm wont affect much or going up porlock hill  would kill it .
If the holes on mount plate line up you can remove the PRV  ,  often the hex caps of the underside plugs have been plonkered in previous life

Ill put a pint on the pump cam

Pete

Good, we're making progress,  yes the holes in the mounting plate all line up (a minor miracle) and I can get to the PRV and pump assembly plugs. Exhaust might need to come of but nevermind, it's just a shame I can't get the car up high enough to get the exhaust out properly, but that's not an issue for this job really as I'll only need a couple of inches of clearance and might be able to leave it attached at the front. At least the exhaust will come off easily if necessary, because I've only just put it back on after doing the diff stub axle bearings! 

I'm pretty sure of what to look for in the PRV and pump assembly hole, but am I right in thinking that it's just something to check before facing up to an od removal, or is there something I can look for to confirm your hunch about the pump cam? Is that spring/ball/seat in the pump assembly hole some sort of non return valve?

A pint eh?  Make mine a pint of cool refreshing EP90.   Actually Pete I think I'll owe you a pint either way if you can lead me to the cause of the problem.

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

The prv is simple sprung plunger or ball,  you cannot remove the piston or pump from on car theres is a drag to make up and 

The assy is pegged in place by a grub screw located between the two cass halves faces so has to be split to do this

You can possibly see the piston riding up down from shaft rotation.  !   Never tried this myself 

Oil be seeing you 

Pere

[ShaunW]

Pete, rather than dropping the exhaust to do those checks (probably inconclusive anyway) I've decided to take out the gb and od and have a proper look on the bench. 

I've chickened out of removing it myself but have a local garage who'll remove it and store my car while I take the box home for a couple of weeks. Then I'll take it back and they can refit it. I can check the clutch and do the leaky gaskets too so it will tick off several jobs. 

It's all stripped out so it shouldn't take them very long especially as they are ok about me being there to give them some guidance. How long would you think? An hour out and an hour in? 

Is it right that you have to remove it from the engine with the bell housing but then remove the housing so you can manouver it between the floor and the dash?  Like this guy does... Https://youtu.be/irDL1_7v84s

[Pete Lewis]

That wont load for me

 but no just may need a bit of rotation to clear the heater outlet never heard of anyone taking the clutch hsg off

On herald and vitesse the heater distribution box is simplemto remove, but not the same on a spitty or the gt6

It will come out Nothing wrong with taking the hsg off but even access to do that ,  is not easy

Pete

[Badwolf]

Pete. Copy all the web link address into your browser, don't just click on it. For some reason only the first part of the link is loading.

Https://youtu.be/irDL1_7v84s

[dougbgt6]

Just taken out the clutch on my brother's Spitfire, so vivid in my memory!  Beneficial to remove seats and the parcel shelf (although I once did it in my GT6 without). The bell housing will foul the bulkhead on the driver's side and has to be rolled into the passenger side foot well. Alternatively on the GT6, slightly to the passenger side and lifted at 45 degrees to clear the dash. I wouldn't recommend the GT6 method unless you are young and strong! The bell housing is bolted to the gearbox, bolts inside the bell housing so you can't separate them until it's all off. You may also have to jack up the engine slightly to clear the exhaust. And don't forget to mark the prop shaft so that it all goes back together as it was.

[ShaunW]

Well I've finally got my gbox and OD on the bench. I let a garage do it and I've brought the box home while they store the car for a week or two.

One thing that's confusing me is that the code on the gbox is WE27508. 

Does anyone know where it came from because I can't find it anywhere? 

[ShaunW]

.. And what's this little pin? There just one in that channel. 

[Pete Lewis]

its anti rotation pin to stop the carrier rotating on the front cover sleeve, if there is any wear from the lever pins in the carrier groove , drill new hole and refit pit further round, 

if you get carried away you can replace worn withdrawl lever pins by drill them out and weld in new made from clevis pins.

if the throwout brg is only 15mm thick fit a washer under the press in  spherical post as orig bearing was 19mm thick and this thinner version moves the arm geometry to make its see saw balance late , so you loose mechanical advantage in the levering action   it all helps clutch  operation.

[Pete Lewis]

WE is Commision  number for 1850 Dolomite 1850HL   but not the code for gearbox which was WM or WH

so WE on a gearbox  at a guess could be from a reconditioner somewhere ,

Pete

[ShaunW]

Brilliant info. 19mm - check. 

I think the wear is tolerable. It'll have to be because I won't have a welder until Santa has been. 

Identification number is another mystery. Every time I solve 1 I  find 2 more. 

Gbox mounted nicely on my old Coronet lathe. Tiny height difference but think I can rig up a flexible drive. 

1.5mm side to side play on input shaft and a couple of degrees of play rotationaly. Not ideal obv but I'm not looking for (can't afford) perfection. Should be OK? Jeez what I wouldn't give for some wise eyes on the job. Internet is not a bad compromise though and was science fiction when these were made. 

[ShaunW]

Is this broken? Sorry about all the posts. It's my first free day for ages so cracking on. 

[Waynebaby]

I'm afraid so Shaun,

You should have a spring to help keep the fork on the pivot pin.

Wayne 

[ShaunW]

Thanks for that. Better to know now than later. 

I was supposed to be just looking at the OD but now the play in the box is a worry even though it felt OK on the road. Changes are crisp but definitely play between in and out somewhere. Classic case of "while I'm there I'll have a look".....the most expensive phrase going. 

So......what's the correct name for that lever? Not sure I've ever seen one on the parts sites. Mmm 

[Pete Lewis]

Clutch withdrawl lever

There will be waggle on the input shaft its a single row bearing, when icar the spigot end is fixed in the flywheel bush to hold it all controlled

Slack in gesr change is worn bushes in the  top mounted remote assy not in the base gearbox.

What do you hope to achieve by driving the input shaft   very little

Synchro and od are driven from the mainshaft  whilst in gear the od  cam will turn , but  synchro needs a drive or flywheel on the mainshaft

To test you drive the mainshaft , then change gear then the synchros will whizz the input shaft up and allow a change , it should have a clutch disc on the shaft 

So this  simulates , in car conditions

I would just unbolt the od and checkmthe cam has its woodruff key fitted

Pete

 

[Waynebaby]

Shaun,

You will struggle to find a clutch operating assembly (a.k.a. a clutch fork) on the suppliers websites but they do turn up on ebay quite regularly. 

Wayne 

 

[ShaunW]

Thank Pete & Wayne.  All received and understood.

Would anyone here know the part number of that clutch lever? I've seen one that looks similar advertised for a TR7 but no idea if it's compatible. I might be quite sometime before I see wording in an ad that sounds exactly right.

Has anyone here used Quillers ? The seem to have pretty cheap recon ODs but 'recon' means different things to different people, they might just be wiped with an oily rag. I'm not doing anything rash just yet, just sizing up some options. I'm hoping they'll have that clutch fork too but I'm still unsure of what it came from.

[AidanT]

Hi

Quillers don't seem to have a good reputation on here unless you are local to them  The positive feedback came from those who could go there and get items direct 

Aidan