iana Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 Just noticed that rimmers have a servo on offer, is it an essential upgrade or a nice to have? I never bothered on the spitfire I had and never really found it an issue, however the gt6 I had did have a servo. Ive only had the car a couple of weeks and Im getting used to the brakes - theyre fine, just need a good old shove - so do I get used them or fir the servo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 If you find the brakes OK, don't bother. If you find the difference between your daily driver and the Vitesse too much, fit a servo. But do make sure all brakes are working well (amazingly people fit servo's because the brakes are not great, and that is often because of poor maintenance/components) I fitted a servo to my Toledo as the brakes were a tad scary, and mine had been changed from drums to front discs. The other models with discs all come with servos from the factory. Brakes are still rubbish...(smaller than a herald brakes, car rather heavier, more powerful and even sprints use the same discs/calipers!) I fitted a powertune servo from MGB hive, via ebay. Probably same make as Rimmers, and a wide choice of boost ratios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 Ive been looking at Powertune remote servos on ebay recently for my Vitesse as the price keeps coming down, now 75pounds delivered. Theres a few things thats putting me off: location as the engine bay doesnt lend itself to fitting a servo, I think there could be increased brake pedal travel with a servo, loss of brake 'feeling' and more chance of locking the wheels up (need ABS but that would be a bigger modification!), reports of people having problems with these servos..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 All the general kits are universal fits all so its a servo a bracket some pipe and hose ,you make it fit On herald vitesse the common site is across the clutch master with the servo mounted across the car , before i found this out we fitted the unit on my Vit6 by shortend the battery tray and moved it to the left , mounted the servo between battery and heater I had mintex 1144 pads which have amazing improvements over green stuff or repro cardboard ones With these pads and a servo it was phenominal braking with light pedals, yes if clumsy you would lock up. Its all down to preference Will load some pics when out on the laptop , Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iana Posted February 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 So would a swap to mintex 1144 pads be a good starting point before fitting a servo? I assume youre still on standard discs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 Yes its an ideal upgrade, so long as all is working as it should Thes pads can be pricey, , check club shop out There is a special bedding in proceedure but need laptop to down load it (its out in the conservatory dark and cold now) It is mentioned in other posts but this silly tablet wont search without me nodding off. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 Don't be fooled by expensive discs. Grooved or dimpled does nothing to help braking unless very sophisticated pads. normal discs in good condition (or buy new if in doubt, very cheap) are fine. 1144 rather good.... you may have to open the pin holes out a tad but a drill will do the job nicely. (the pads are only available for metric versions of the callipers I believe, which use a smaller pin. But that is all) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted February 21, 2019 Report Share Posted February 21, 2019 I agree with Clive, having changed to dimpled and grooved discs I can tell you they made no difference at all! And they're noisy, so went back to standard. I fitted 1144s. For something that cost so much I was expecting an improvement, however they are phenomenal, worth every penny. The club shop did offer metric and imperial versions, maybe no more? So Clive may be right about metric only. I replaced my dead servo with a Lockheed type, again a dramatic improvement, braking like my modern. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 I didn't realise imperial were ever available.Indeed the club shop does list them but no part number given. I wonder if the club had some done with the larger holes or have them predrilled? Canleys etc only keep the later type, with a footnote about drilling out the holes. TR Enterprises offer to drill them if purchased. A friend actually fitted small brass tubes to his callipers and then used the metric pins. More than 1 way to do the job. Cheapest I can find anywhere is just shy of £50 delivered. Part number is MGB633 1144 (Do not be tempted searching for just MGB633, that is the pad shape part number, so will be std compound friction material, which is too hard. Add the 1144 and all should be well!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Iana, I think you need to know what you want from any upgrade. In this case, a servo will NOT 'improve your braking'. It can only reduce the effort you need to make on the brake pedal for the same effect at the wheels. It cannot make an ineffective, inefficient, badly working brake system any better. Only rebuiliding renovation can do that. And drilled or slotted discs? As clive says, or doesn't say but implies, bling. Not worth the money. Drilled discs crack earlier than entire ones, so even more costly. Vented discs are another matter, invaluable if you are stressing the brakes to the max. , competition or pass storming, but no amount of ordinary road use will do that. Moderns ALL have servos, then the pressure you need to use on Triumph brakes is greater than you are used to. If you have a disability, or just an arthritic leg, knee or hip, good idea, but otherwise, unassisted is fine! John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 as i said a late pic of the Vit6 with servo mounted next to a shorten battery tray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 mintex bedding in proceedure https://forum.tssc.org.uk/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=3861 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynebaby Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 In my opinion they are more trouble than they are worth. I only keep one on my Mk3 GT6 because, being a late car, it is a standard fitment and therefore not having one would be an MOT failure. I might be unlucky, but my experience goes like this: The original servo didn't work and drank brake fluid, the replacement NOS Girling Powerstop leaked fluid through the breather valve and after "repair" this servo injected fluid into the manifold like the first one. Only after being overhauled by a specialist did the new one cease to be incontinent. Given that the service schedule for the Powerstop is to re-seal the unit every three years this is a lot of trouble for a servo which gives minimal assistance. Wayne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Wayne, I had the same with the original Girling, it had to go! Then I discovered the MOT thing and realized I had to fit another. I got a Lockheed type, it was £40 cheaper than anywhere else and there was a reason for that, assembled by an 8 year old in China! Took me days to figure out what was wrong, I had it on front wheels only, then all four, it just locked on then wouldn't let go. I had to strip it down, clean out airways packed with grease (Why did they do that?!!) and add an external one way valve to replace the ineffectual internal one. Then, Nirvana! If you don't want the OMG!!! shock of swapping between modern and classic, get a servo, a Lockheed for preference. I wouldn't be without it. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iana Posted February 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 John. I think you’re possibly right - more pressure than I’ve become accustomed to, never questioned the lack servo brakes on the spitfire, and in fairness the brakes feel fine on the vitesse, I only really thought about it as it’s on offer with rimmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 21 minutes ago, iana said: John. I think you’re possibly right Iana, No possibly about it, John IS right (You don't want to be upsetting John!) however what he says misses the point. Servos are an improvement to braking in the same way that electrical trafficators are to the car. You could stick your arm out the window and wave it about. but technology moves on and Triumph fitted servos to many models. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Have a servo on my Mk1 Vitesse just to lighten the pedal force, you do not have to drill any new holes to fit. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Has anyone noticed increased pedal travel after fitting a servo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 as you can apply more pressure easily. yes you can get more than you noticed the servo should sit with a slant to allow the air to bleed out Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, dougbgt6 said: Iana, No possibly about it, John IS right (You don't want to be upsetting John!) however what he says misses the point. Servos are an improvement to braking in the same way that electrical trafficators are to the car. You could stick your arm out the window and wave it about. but technology moves on and Triumph fitted servos to many models. Doug Thnak you for your agreement, but what ever makes you think I won't be upset about that? In what way do I "miss the point"? Triumph fitted swing axles to their small chassis cars - that doesn't make the swing axle an "improvement" Trafficators, especially the original signal type, as on Moggies, are a PITA, to use an excellent Americanism, failing and getting broken off. "Indicators", flashers are fine, a real "improvement", if people used them. A servo is only an "improvement" if it is a troublefree way of improving braking. It is neither, as shown above. It just makes the work of driving less. JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Yes, the pedal will drop a fraction between engine stopped and running, it's supposed to, that's how you can tell it's working. Happens on moderns as well. As to an over all increase, no, other than the strong right leg that Pete describes. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 John, Always a delight to hear your views! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 From memory, servo's were first fitted to cars with disc brakes because drum brakes have a self servo effect (I did know why once - to do with the rotation of the drum against the shoe and it adding to the effect I think). Small cars even with discs weren't generally added as the effort wasn't that bad - especially back in the day when drivers were used to giving the peddle a prod. As the discs got larger, the effort to press the peddle with enough force and not have too much travel got to the point that a servo was needed to make the driver feel better. And now most cars are a lot heavier and have discs all round, the effort is immense. As an aside, I had a total coolant loss in my Land Rover at 8000' in the Pyrenees in 2016 - I had to be recovered back down to a safe place (Ski resort car park at 6000') - took 2 cars to do it - one to tow up the hills and one to hold me back going down. Suffice to say that I still did much of the braking and had to use both feet to get any sort of effect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Anglefire, Why is it that "As the discs got larger, the effort to press the peddle with enough force and not have too much travel got to the point that a servo was needed to make the driver feel better." A larger disc has a greater lever on the wheel/tyre. Try thought experiment - a disc MUCH larger than the wheel. Yes, it would need a trench to travel in, but you could stop it with your fingers if it were large enough. And pedal travel would be the same, surely? If the master and piston cylinder diameters were the same But educate me, please - it is concievable that I am wrong! I remember in the early 70s, being allowed to drive a Citroen DS - be very gentle with the brakes, he said! - I was, and nearly went through the windscreen. The balance between foot pressure and brake pressure is better these days. JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted February 22, 2019 Report Share Posted February 22, 2019 Correct Mark, At slow speeds disc's needed more effort than drum brakes due to their servo effect. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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