Mjit Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 OK, so working through the to-do list on my new 2000 and got to removing the external oil feed... Now these can be fitted properly, with a restriction in the internal oil gallery, but usually aren't. Obviously taking the head off and looking is the sure fire way to check but...well that's just a ball ache. I'm tempted to just remove it but does anyone know how much oil you should see under the rocker box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 out of interest what is it that makes you want to remove the external feed - are you seeing low oil pressure or excessive oil loss through the valve guides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 well you dont have to remove the head that wont have the restriction , if it is restricted its normally a blockage fitted into the banjo bolt Std interupted oil feed gives a dribble to the rockers, not a lot , and aged rockers can get blocked oilways there are no stem oil seals so externals flood the head and oil burning from excess down the guides is the normal result Im with JohnD its the spawn of satan you just dont need it the thread in the head is a std unf 5/16 from memory for a blanking plug setscrew. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjit Posted August 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 Removing based on experience with the one on my Spitfire. Great for oil consumption and spraying the bonnet of the car behind at start-up but not much else. Even more so on the 6 cylinder as, unless it's the Kastner spider version, you take oil from the marginal crank feed to over oil the rocker shaft. And I mean, when was the last time you saw people complaining about excess rocker shaft wear on our engines...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 But they must have been bought for a reason as they certainly sold enough - I thought there were cases of insufficient oil supply to the rockers? What is your oil pressure like as I just hope you dont create yourself a problem if before there wasnt one..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 There is this myth that rockers are poorly fed, the designed feed is interrupted its a bypass via the rear cam journal which has a slot/flat on it so the supply up into the head and rear pedestal gets a squirt on each revolution of the cam journal Most rocker wear and shaft wear is down to aged build up of crud, not the lack of oil and after all these years its and area that benefits from a strip and clean, but that doesnt happen. The external feed is a must have product you really dont need it just pressure washes the rocker gear to the detriment of supplying the crankshaft. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 hmmm so a real con right from the early days then! Sounds like Mjit better overhaul his rocker gear just in case though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Horse Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 i thought the idea behind the external oil feed was to eliminate the oil leak at the back of the head. By fitting a grub screw in the oil ways in the head and block and fitting the external feed, albeit with a restrictor in place, you prevent the possibility of the oil leaking out the back of the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, Tom Horse said: i thought the idea behind the external oil feed was to eliminate the oil leak at the back of the head. By fitting a grub screw in the oil ways in the head and block and fitting the external feed, albeit with a restrictor in place, you prevent the possibility of the oil leaking out the back of the head. That is the only reason you should have one. It’s not how they were marketed. the size of the restrictor is very important- too big a hole and you rob the main bearings at the front of the engine of oil pressure. i bet that 99% of the external oil feed a fitted have not blocked the oil feed in the block and are not fitted with a restrictor. A recipe for seriously damaged bearings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Horse Posted August 7, 2019 Report Share Posted August 7, 2019 Good to know I'm in that 1%. After three oil leaks, three head gaskets, i bit the bullet and fitted one when rebuilding the engine. Grub screws and restrictor fitted and time will tell if it's stopped the leak from recurring. I'll leave the 2000 alone for now until I see how the mkiv gets on with it. Don't tell anyone but i also drilled out the oil way that feeds the crank, and fitted a pressure gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 I would have thought a pressure gauge in the normal place (pressure switch connection) is all thats needed and if after fitting an external feed the pressure indicated has dropped too much you need to fit a restrictor/remove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 If the feed from the cam journal has been blocked then its a head off Most rear corner leaks from this zone is solved by small smear of sealer on the gasket and keeping the head stud torqure in spec As most have soft washers that have deformed and you loose the clamping force under the now reduced nut torque . Best to used heavy duty washers , and nuts available from many . If its mk 1 or 4cyl then on the 3/8"studs mini are cheaper Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 Many years ago someone here described their own process in fitting one. Mindful of the need to avoid robbing the mains, he fitted an external feed, and observed the oil pressure change. It had fallen (! bypass flow must have been enormous!) so he fitted a restrictor, a disc with a small hole in it. He repeated this with smaller and smaller restrictor holes, until there was no pressure drop. This only occurred wth a restrictor hole less than 1mm wide. I can't recall the state of his engine, new or worn, but such a small orifice has to mean that the actual flow normally is quite small, and is further proof that the external line is unnecessary. JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 These were never part of the original engine spec. Rocker shaft wear only occurs after many miles or no regular oil change or oil feed blocked, which normally come down to lack of servicing. Most oil leaks at the corner of the head are due to no sealer (very small amount) being a applied around the oil feed hole on the gasket. I agree with the comments by others. e.g. JohnD - its the spawn of satan. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjit Posted August 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 OK, so here (for people to either agree sounds sensible or scream NNNNNOOOOOO!!!!! at) is my current plan. Assume the feed was just bolted on with no restrictor/blanking grub screw in the head/block. Remove the feed/fit the blanking plug. Remove the rocker cover and give everything a solid wipe down with blue towel, to remove all visible oil. Start the car and run for a few minutes, so the oil has had a chance to build pressure and get pumping around everywhere it can get to. Switch off and remove the rocker cover again. If it's still bone dry, assume there IS a restrictor in the block, mumble a bit, then refit the external feed (with new crush washers). If it's once more slick with oil 'up top' assume there ISN'T a restrictor and go for it. Worst case I can swap the engine for the one in the parts car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 Mjit, I wouldn't bother putting the rocker cover back after the wipe down. If you've ever seen Pete Lewis' patented "find the noisy tappet procedure" He runs the engine while setting the tappets. The oil doesn't squirt, it oozes and you'll have more chance of seeing if it's working. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 I doubt the pipe/feed was fitted because there were problems. It was a fad to fit some of these of add on bits 40/50 years ago. Go faster strips and all that. If you are worried about a problem with the normal oil feed, with the pipe/feed thing removed if you then take the rockers off and blast some WD40 down the oil hole. The WD40 will bubble up around the oil feed hole, that's normal. The WD40 should help to dissolve any blockage. But I doubt you have any problems. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, dave.vitesse said: I doubt the pipe/feed was fitted because there were problems. It was a fad to fit some of these of add on bits 40/50 years ago. Go faster strips and all that. Even more recent that that, Dave!! Everyone who bought a Triumph immediately needed a rocker oil feed, remote oil cooler and an electric cooling fan. If you didn't have one - why not??? Didn't you realise the harm you were doing to your engine? All of the old codgers at my local shows drove their factory-standard Heralds day after day and never had any problems, and forty years later the same cars are still on the original engines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, dave.vitesse said: blast some WD40 down the oil hole. The WD40 will bubble up around the oil feed hole, that's normal. The WD40 should help to dissolve any blockage. are we on the right forum . this sounds useful elswhere ??? pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said: are we on the right forum . this sounds useful elswhere ??? pete Sounds as we are back on bums Pete.... Tony. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said: are we on the right forum . this sounds useful elswhere ??? pete The old caster oil method A. But watch out for blast back! Dave 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 5 hours ago, Mjit said: OK, so here (for people to either agree sounds sensible or scream NNNNNOOOOOO!!!!! at) is my current plan. Assume the feed was just bolted on with no restrictor/blanking grub screw in the head/block. Remove the feed/fit the blanking plug. Remove the rocker cover and give everything a solid wipe down with blue towel, to remove all visible oil. Start the car and run for a few minutes, so the oil has had a chance to build pressure and get pumping around everywhere it can get to. Switch off and remove the rocker cover again. If it's still bone dry, assume there IS a restrictor in the block, mumble a bit, then refit the external feed (with new crush washers). If it's once more slick with oil 'up top' assume there ISN'T a restrictor and go for it. Worst case I can swap the engine for the one in the parts car. out of interest have you seen what your oil pressure is like? I dont have a gauge permanently installed but got a small cheapy off ebay which I screw in directly in place of the oil switch to check on my pressure once in a while. It would be good to see a before n after..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 Easy to make a resteictor for the banjo bolt, tap a thread inside the bolt, fit a sawn off bolt slug, Drill this with a 0.5mm drill and refit that should caulk it up enough to get oily rockers without starving the crank Still have an avid hate of the thing Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 3 hours ago, johny said: out of interest have you seen what your oil pressure is like? I dont have a gauge permanently installed but got a small cheapy off ebay which I screw in directly in place of the oil switch to check on my pressure once in a while. It would be good to see a before n after..... The problem isn’t the oil pressure at the block tapping where the pressure switch is fitted. The problem is towards the front end of the block where the oil gallery feeds the main bearings. Kas Kastner solved the main bearing oil pressure problems on his race engines with that was called the octopus to feed oil to each bearing. Google it get more details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 But surely when installing a rocker feed its likely to cause a drop in pressure that can be seen at the switch connection? I know a pressure gauge connected there can show the deterioration in pressure as flow paths, such as the crank bearings, become greater due to wear.... Its different in a racing application as you want to ensure equal and high oil flow rates to the bearings for extra cooling and the standard oil galleries arent big enough so parallel routes are required. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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