Vitesse - Hearld body swap?

[Phil C]

Hi All

I am getting close to completing the restoration of my Vitesse Convertible Mk2 rolling chassis/engine so beginning to plan the necessary bodywork repairs - which are extensive 

I have been offered a 13/60 bonnet, bulkhead and tub which, whilst still requiring much work, are far better than what I've currently got.

Apart from the obvious (twin headlights and trim/badge holes) is there anything I should be aware of which would make this swap difficult?

Not yet having looked at it in any detail, has anybody already converted to twin headlights on a 13/60 bonnet? Tips?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Pete Lewis]

The 13/60 bonnet is based on the vitesse unit it  should fit ok the shallower  1200 bonnet needs lifting to  clear the engine 

I dont see the 13/60 having that problem,

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

That's an interesting point, Pete - if you had asked me, I'd have stated that the 1200 bonnet is higher, as it runs straight with less fall to the front edge, whereas the 13/60 bonnet dips downwards at the front and appears lower at the front edge and especially between the wings. With Vitesse and 13/60 tops being the same it's obvious both will take the 6 cylinder engine but I'd have sworn the 1200 was higher still. You live and learn every day!

[Pete Lewis]

I only say that as we had  a  local vitesse with a 1200  bonnet and it had to  sit a bit high 

Dont know where  the  car is now

Pete

[Clive]

Years ago there was an article/resto of a vitesse and he used a (brand new) 13/60 bonnet. Need to swap the front section, and then modify the herald wings to suit the slight change of shape. He cut sections from the vitesse and welded them in, triangle sort of shape..

Not too tricky, as all new vitesse wings have been modified herald ones for many years (at least 25 when I bought one from fitchetts)

Otherwise they are the same.

Think it was Peter Williams (or is it Williamson?) Who did the resto, all documented in the courier. Probably early 90's.

[Peter Truman]

My Mk2 Vitesse is fitted with an Australian 12/50 bonnet fits and looks perfect as they used the Vitesse twin headlight bonnet Ha! One of the few Advantages of owning a Vitesse in Australia.

The AMI assembled 12/50 came in Coupe and Saloon form the Coupe with twin headlight bonnet looked good!

Peter T

[Peter Truman]

I'm up now and found an AMI 12/50 Coupe photo, note chrome bumper over riders too.   

Heralds were CKD from Triumph which meant that they were supplied in individual body parts not sub assemblies, so AMI would have had to assemble the bonnet using a jig, like the rest of the body, the chassis was delivered as a completed assembly, as were the mechanicals.

 

[Phil C]

19 hours ago, clive said:

then modify the herald wings to suit the slight change of shape. He cut sections from the vitesse and welded them in, triangle sort of shape..

Not too tricky, as all new vitesse wings have been modified herald ones for many years (at least 25 when I bought one from fitchetts)

Otherwise they are the same.

Clive,

Are you able to expand on where the slight change of shape is.

In my ignorance I have always thought the bonnets were the same apart from the front panel/twin lights. I do now  note suppliers list two separate part numbers.

Thanks.

[Pete Lewis]

the side wings evolved so there are changes ,  think the width rear of the wheel arch changed a little for 13/60 ??? was it just the change to accommodate the revised headlamp 

so I'm not good on this 

Pete

[68vitesse]

Its the different size of the headlights which cause the problem even the ones sold for Vitesse don't fit to well. l was told some years ago it was cheaper and easier to by 13/60 wings and modify them yourself.

Regards

Paul

[Clive]

It is a section from the wing at about "level" with the centre of the headlight, and is (please remember that this is from a long time ago, no actual reference since) about 4" along the join to the headlight panel, and similar to the other point of the triangle. Think easiest way is to fit the vitesse headlamp panel along the top, and take it from there. Fitchetts probably use a jig to the same effect. 

The courier article they cut a bigger bit from the donor vitesse wing, as they don't usually rust in that area. My bonnet/wing had accident damage hence replacement, otherwise I would have used a 1360 wing.

The fitchetts wing wasn't a terrible fit, needed a little massage... As usual with new panels.

[Phil C]

Thanks all for your input. I will sit the two bonnets together and work out the differences before I decide which way to go 

As nobody has mentioned them am I correct in thinking the bulkhead and tub are interchangeable?

[Pete Lewis]

yes  basically....  all the same 

Pete

[PeteH]

Hi

So there is a difference between the H13/60 and Vittesse Bonnets then?. That is interesting as I have been offered a Vittesse bonnet, And thought from appearance it would be an easy fit?. (my 13/60 bonnet is to say the least a bit "ragged"), but the front panel looks salvageable. (or maybe I could keep the 2 headlight system? and convert to LED`s?)

Looking at the "Canley" Drawings I can see the Bonnet Tops are the same part number. (items 15 and 20). But the sides (1&2 in both cases) are not. (And the Vittesse panel is £50+ more expensive?).

[Clive]

Yes, straight swap from 13/60 to Vitesse.

LEDs not required, the switches cope with the Vitesse lights as they are all the same.

Wings more expensive as they are modifild Herald wings to cope with the slightly different shaped front panel.

[PeteH]

56 minutes ago, clive said:

Yes, straight swap from 13/60 to Vitesse.

LEDs not required, the switches cope with the Vitesse lights as they are all the same.

Wings more expensive as they are modifild Herald wings to cope with the slightly different shaped front panel.

Or in my case Vitesse to 13/60?. I have considered using LED`s anyway. as a means to reduce power consumption?. But thought it might be easier to "engineer" with a 4 light system?. I remember however from the 1980`s, when Mrs H had a Vitesse that "lost" one, that the Light Cowls where hard to source even then.

[Clive]

Yes, they are interchangeable.

Cowls never seemed difficult when I built mine in the late 80's, I had several sets? But everything is more difficult to find now....

LED headlights that are reliable/work correctly are not cheap. I know Philips one are about £120 a pair for H4 bulbs. Using quality halogens and relays is very effective and rather more cost efficient. (plus I really do not like the LED light output, too blue and harsh, and the cutoff is very defined as opposed to gentle)

[PeteH]

39 minutes ago, clive said:

Yes, they are interchangeable.

Cowls never seemed difficult when I built mine in the late 80's, I had several sets? But everything is more difficult to find now....

LED headlights that are reliable/work correctly are not cheap. I know Philips one are about £120 a pair for H4 bulbs. Using quality halogens and relays is very effective and rather more cost efficient. (plus I really do not like the LED light output, too blue and harsh, and the cutoff is very defined as opposed to gentle)

Hi

I have not as yet used LED`s, So it is a work in progress, as they say. I suspect that using them for Rear/Brake/Side lights etc would not cause many if any issues?. I suspect though it may do on modern "can-bus" systems which have "failure" features built into them?. I do take the point over their use as headlights due to the level of "light" output required and its need to be "controlled". In the past when I have changed to "Halogens" in any car, especially when rallying. I have used separate Fused relay control as a means to reduce "strain" on existing wiring and switchgear.

Pete

[Clive]

Again not dabbled ( I can't see many benefits?) but I have seen the stop/tail lamps where they brake part is woeful, no brighter than the tail. So again, quality is all. Classiccarleds have been recommended by a friend as a quality supplier. Apparently ebay is awash with junk, some even being fake.

Yes, I changed to Philips Extreme (!) extra bright H4's, plus crystal lens units and relays, in my spitfire 11 years ago when I was doing a lot of 12 car rallies. Difference was really night and day! Still got them, working brilliantly. 

EDIT I should add that just changing the std h4 bulbs to a relay system on my Toledo has given impressive results. Good as a modern car. Thoroughly tested on 2x RBRR. And the 40A alternator never struggled despite heater, wipers etc getting use in the 22hrs of darkness over the weekend. I did have spotlamps too set up for distance, again relay equipped halogens.