TR Flashing Too Much

[Phil Hayden]

Fine dry morning so took the opportunity to go for a spin,

Interesting drive today particularly on roundabouts as unknown to me at the time when indicating, repeaters flashed both sides.( Front and Rear )

The car being a 72 Uk model TR6 didn't until today have hazard warning lights.

A new electronic flasher unit was fitted 1500 miles ago when the lights were upgraded to led.

Is it likely the issue is the flasher unit or more involved.

If so any recommendations of a good auto electrician in south Bucks.

As always many thanks to the generosity of the forum assisting those of us that wish they had the technical know how somewhere equal to the love of their cars.

 

Phil.

 

[Pete Lewis]

i would double check the flasher unit is compatible to run LED 

pete

[Phil Hayden]

Peter,

The unit is an electronic unit to operate LED repeaters. I’m confused how the fault is effecting both sides so I assume it somewhere along the loom before the split to the individual units. Might disconnect one side to see what effect that has.

Phil

[Pete Lewis]

the unit is the common denominator as both sides have the problem , can you try another unit ??

  with LED youre looking at a low current , compared to the old bi metal flashers where load affects the flash rate

i , have no idea how the electronic ones control the flash rate ..

have seen  cars with std bulbs and elecy flashers with a fast rate  with little pause between winks 

sorry not much help

Pete

[Phil Hayden]

Pete,

All suggestions appreciated, going to check the earth wires and the flasher unit today.

Phil

[dougbgt6]

Phil,

Let us know the outcome, we’ve had this come up before and not heard the solution.

Doug

[Casper]

I vote for a bad earth, return current going to other side through the earth wire.

C.

[Phil Hayden]

Having had a good route around I may have found the issue ! ( Passenger footwell)

Not sure why this wire has melted or if its been like it for some time but certainly a starting point.

I think a complete check / overhaul is in order.  I'll post the outcome when this section of the wiring has been replaced.

Just as well it was only the indicators, looks as if it could have been far more serious.

Phil

[Peter Truman]

Looks like some ones played with it before is that blue elect tape or crimp connector (I hate them, I hate Em, I hate em!)

I solder joints and connectors, that tells me if oxidation of the wire is an issue. Solder and shrink sleeve.

I did a joint on daughters Spit the other day that I swore I'd never use one of those offtake connectors that shears thro the insulation as you snap/close it with the pliers. A temp fix to get a tell tale light working when the Elect Rad Fan comes on, either Auto or Manual. I'll permanently wire it back to the relay output now I know it all works.

Ref LEDs I only use them on the rear tail and flashers, and with that set up the standard mechanical flasher works OK.

Peter T

[RogerH]

Crimped V solder joint  will this comparison ever go away.

There are no solder joints in aircraft wiring looms. That is my benchmark.

Crimped joints have been proved to be far superior to solder joints.

Oxidation of a typical copper/tinned copper cable is minimal and has no effect.

Oxidation caused by solder flux can be an issue IF the wrong solder/flux is used.

More importantly has anybody considered age hardening of the copper causing it to break if not supported properly.  

Roger (tin hat on)

[Pete Lewis]

corrosion , thats the reason most OE harness are welded wire   on  connectors or crimped   we spent many months of testing and the best for any was a squirt of Tectyl

on any thing exposed , like horns and lamps etc  where in the 70s terminals would drop off very quickly 

and the crimp is considered a permanent and as good as a new cable repair on eg household wiring .

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, RogerH said:

Crimped V solder joint  will this comparison ever go away.

There are no solder joints in aircraft wiring looms.

Just soldered wiring for a CD head unit into a Ford Mondeo, nearly gassed by the fumes but it's much neater with shrinkwrap than a huge scotchlok or bullet connector. (Once you get over the problem of where to rest a hot soldering iron in a car interior!)

I'm not intending to fly... but as it should be corrosion and shock-free, I reckon it'll do for that kind of wiring.

[Peter Truman]

In 50 plus years haven’t had a solder joint fail but poorly crimped by garages yes and Triumphs own too even crimped and crimp sealed.

Never had any luck with crimps sold by motor factors with their weak crimp tools and soft alloy connectors but I’ve never used a professional crimp tool the crimp connections are very open esp to the elements whereas it’s easy and neat to shrink sleeve a solder joint.

too late in life now to retool for crimps and as solder works for me I’ll stick with them

even the engine wires oil switch alternator where they flex a lot the solder jointed wires looks good after 40 years.

I’m sticking with brass terminals and solder Joints they’ll see me out!

Peter T

[Gary Flinn]

I work in the Electrical Contracting Industry, our Panel shop uses Crimped type Connections exclusively for their Electrical Panel Wiring and they've done so for years.

Electrical connections up to 300mm/SQ Cable sizes using Hydraulic Crimped connections is normal industry installation practice for Electrical loads up to 1600 Amps

I have used numerous crimped type Lug connectors using good quality Ratchet type Crimps on car wiring systems for years without any issues, Ratchet type Crimps in conjunction with good quality crimp type lugs shouldn't give any problems on a car electrical systems.  

The cable must be stripped correctly, the right size crimp used and the electrical connection to the accessory correctly tightened to ensure no future problems.

Loose connection and high currents can cause over-heating and possible fires on Electrical Systems, even on Car Systems?

Gary   

       

[Colin Lindsay]

22 minutes ago, Gary Flinn said:

Loose connection and high currents can cause over-heating and possible fires on Electrical Systems, even on Car Systems?

Gary   

       

True, on any system. However I don't think the aerial connection will burn my car down because I soldered it, nor the wire to the steering wheel control. The red and yellow power cables are bullet-connectors inside a plastic sheath, and fused. (I've just remembered that I soldered the speakers in the Tr7 too.) It's not a one-size-fits-all solution; there are wires that can be safely soldered, and some that can't.

[Pete Lewis]

scotch locks   should be banned 

terrible things   another spawn of satan

 

[Phil Hayden]

Casper, it was the earths.

I replaced all the bullet earth connectors and sleeves in and around the area and hey presto normal business resumed - flashers working correctly.

Re the melted wiring, nipped down to DPJ auto electricians in Uxbridge today for a chat, they think the melted wire may be the overdrive wiring...car booked in on Wednesday so we'll see.

Regardless what it is I consider it a lucky escape.

 

Pete they are spade connectors, but i don't think they are the issue, the wire covering has melted and the core has come into contact with the bodywork. Not sure if the wiring has overheated or been effected by heat work on the car sometime ago.  With a 50 year old car It's probably any-ones guess what gremlins exist.

I hope DPJ can sort and test to see if the wiring has been overloaded.

 

Phil

 

[dougbgt6]

Phil,

Uxbridge? My brother lives in Uxbridge! He’s doing up a 1500 Spitfire. He has a friend with a TR4A, they’re always complaining there’s no local area meeting. So, now’s your chance!

Doug

[Pete Lewis]

if its overdrive    is it an A type D type  or J type ( not good on TR) 

some take a high current to pull in   like 10amps on D type , dont know about A type and have to use a relay  ( not on J types  as low load )

the solenoid has a switch in its end so on sol travel it operates a built in swith to reduce the load once engaged 

if this is failing then you use high current continuously  and may explain a melt down . 

Pete

[Phil Hayden]

Hi Doug,

Always up for a spin, providing I can get the hood down ( don't do rain at this time of year ) tell you brother to PM me and we can swap details.

The local area meet is at the Hart and Magpies in Amersham HP7 0LU the next meeting is the 18th of December, not sure what time, being a Newbie.

I'll be going along to link up with the locals Your brother and his friend may like to come along.

Phil

 

Peter,

The questions a bit beyond me ! It's a 72 with overdrive in 2,3 and 4th. Thank you for the info though I'll mention when I take the car in on Wednesday.

 

Phil.

 

[RogerH]

I'm his friend. !!!😁

We used to play footy together many many years ago.

 

The 'A' type OD can draw apprx 20 amps to pull in then switch over to apprx 1amp to hold in.

If the switch goes dicky you may get a chattering Solenoid or possibly just many amps being used.  

 

Roger

[Peter Truman]

Hate to admit it Pete I used a Scotch Lock as a temp measure, will fix with permanent double bullit connector in next week Knew I shouldn’t have but it was late and I wan’t to finish it up 

guilty as charged

peter T

[Pete Lewis]

they do have their uses  and  even used against our will in  production   which did cause problems in warranty 

dont loose sleep ..........get driving 

and  Phil   the high pull in current on OD solenoids should only last  a second or so at most , if the sol  internal switch is not getting operated then thats a good call for your fried harness   if its on pull in not the holding amps     you will get melt down 

Pete

[Phil Hayden]

Sorry Roger didn't recognise you without the green hat. 😉

Phil

[RogerH]

Here you go Phil

 

Roger