1964 Spitfire 4

[Neil Clark]

Boom Boom!  Got the MOT today.  I know I don't need it but I like it for my own reassurance.  And the timing is re-set and the Weber adjusted to the recommended settings.  Now the challenge is getting the running right.  It's very stumbly (if that's a word) when cold and I suspect that the mechanical fuel pump may not be up to the Weber's hunger under acceleration.  I'll run around for a hour or two tomorrow then go back to my mate with the timing devices etc.

[johny]

A fuel pump that isnt up to the demand doesnt really show up on acceleration as the float chamber takes care of that so youre more likely to encounter it driving at continuous high speed up a long steep hill. Typically it'll start to misfire but if you back off for a while will then run well again...

[Neil Clark]

Thank you - makes sense and after thinking about the drive a bit more and learning more I've put a note in the technical forum.  Pulling away from uphill traffic lights or after being stationary wasn't easy.

[Neil Clark]

Everything ran well this morning so whatever has cleared up cleared up - and the gear selector went sloppy!  So that's the next job.

[DanMi]

Glad it's running better. After a few years pretty much idle, probably just needed a good Italian tune up (thrash) to clear everything out. The big problem with a modified car is you have zero idea of what has been done and (judging from the "improvements" to your wiring loom), how well it has been done particularly to the engine. I would guess that if it has a Weber and a 4 branch manifold, then more has been done as the standard twin SUs work well with the hotter mk2 cam (same as mk3), so it would simply not be worth the hassle and outlay without extra work. The real only way to ell what cam it has it to strip the engine and look for any markings, probably too much effort. I would just set the timing as suggested above and see how it runs hopefully the PO got the carb set up. If not it will need a trip to a rolling road.

[Josef]

2 hours ago, Neil Clark said:

Everything ran well this morning so whatever has cleared up cleared up - and the gear selector went sloppy!  So that's the next job.

Canley’s gear change rebush kit I bought earlier in the year was definitely a good one. None of the rough edges on parts that have been known to appear on these kits etc. 

[Pete Lewis]

not a weber fan but a blocked slow running jet has a lot to do with hic ups and poor idling  not the fuel pump 

the Moss Triumph Tune manual gives a lot of jetting information for webers with all the cam/exh variations available 

Pete

[Neil Clark]

Ah, thank you Pete.  Great to have a reference book.

[Straker]

Hi Neil, when you say the Weber is “adjusted to the recommended settings”. Would you mind to share the settings please? Mine is driving me nuts trying to get it to run well!

[Pete Lewis]

the moss performance book MGL9800 does not seem printed now 

heres a scan from Mine on 1147 > engins Plus weber  if that helps  

 

Pete

weber052.pdf

[Neil Clark]

7 hours ago, Straker said:

Hi Neil, when you say the Weber is “adjusted to the recommended settings”. Would you mind to share the settings please? Mine is driving me nuts trying to get it to run well!

I'm sorry but I'm away just now.  I'm pretty sure that I simply downloaded an instruction sheet from somewhere.  

Pete's is probably most useful anyway.  For example  I've no idea which manifold has been fitted to mine by the PO but I suspect it is a Moss item.  

I've also fitted a Mangoletsi throttle linkage and I'm pretty sure that there were some other instructions with that which helped.  (The PO had made up a welded rod from the Mk1 accelerator that actually lay on the exhaust - it was so jerky I don't know how on earth it ever worked and suspect it contributed to the accident that wrote the car off).  So I swapped to a Mk3 accelerator and fitted the Mangoletsi unit.  

When I get home later this week I'll look out what I have and scan it. 

[Straker]

Thanks Pete and Neil, much appreciated. I am close to that set up Pete just need to order up some new air jets..

[Neil Clark]

I was able to read Pete's pdf on a laptop and since I've zero information on the mods / cam / manifold / jetting etc that may / may not have been made or fitted to mine I wouldn't deviate from Pete's sheet!  As long as mine runs well I'll not be investigating further, I just want to get some use out of it after all this time

[Pete Lewis]

been searching for a Moss MGL9800 performance manual and they seem to be rocking horse pooh

there must be   some around  surely   whilst things change over the years its a good host for what to do with

all the various headaches (upgrades)  that are about 

there are some SAH books on the bay but i dont see any of these  Moss versions 

 

Pete

[Neil Clark]

Followed up on the kit to recondition the gear selector.  Mine went floppy so as advised here, went for the Canley kit.  Bit of a pain stripping out the interior again but otherwise fairly straightforward.  Want to give a big thanks to Halfords New Malden who twice in the last two weeks have gone out of their way to help, today lending me access to their vice and last week fixing my daughters bike and refusing money.

[Neil Clark]

After checking the gear change actually worked on the road I put the interior back together, taking the opportunity to line the transmission tunnel with heat reflective material.  I used a high temperature adhesive which worked well - my cutting skills need work but I reckon no one will see!  I replaced the gear box tunnel, fitted a new gear lever rubber gaiter (much better rubber than the one I had removed) and I lined the tunnel sides and  drivers and passengers floors and fire walls with SoundPads.  Once I had it all back together and carpeted I went for a run.  What a difference!  Crisp if slightly stiff gear change, far far less mechanical noise on the road.  The gearbox is a little noisy in first, little rattle from the exhaust at certain revs but otherwise just the lovely sports exhaust note to entertain me on this sunny day!

I'm still not sure that the Weber is perfectly adjusted yet but it needs to run more first.

[Neil Clark]

Suddenly it feels as if we may be getting to the end of re-assembly!  The grilles that were damaged in the PO's crash took a bit of straightening and cleaning up.  It's still very fragile but these grilles are like hens teeth so worth the effort.  Fitted the radiator deflector boards.  Actually it's such a pretty car.  I bought it simply for the fun of the rebuild but getting very attached to it.

[Straker]

your car looks great Neil, a real credit to you.

[Neil Clark]

Doh!  How daft can you be?  When I got the damaged car I dismantled it and photographed each step as attached.  The propshaft was the other way around to my MG (sliding end to the back) so I re-assembled it carefully the same way, just as it came apart, thinking there must be alternatives with these Triumph's.  Had to have it up on a lift today because the exhaust was rattling against the chassis so went to the classic car people who have been helping with the last details.  "Why is the propshaft this way?" asks our man.  "Cos it was that way when I dismantled it."  It's the wrong way round of course, now that I look at the book and is being changed as I write.  

[Clive]

On 21/09/2022 at 10:12, Pete Lewis said:

been searching for a Moss MGL9800 performance manual and they seem to be rocking horse pooh

there must be   some around  surely   whilst things change over the years its a good host for what to do with

all the various headaches (upgrades)  that are about 

there are some SAH books on the bay but i dont see any of these  Moss versions 

 

Pete

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195404448262?hash=item2d7f034206:g:ezcAAOSwkjFjNCjM&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoIDIhQFKAAp66nGu1NP7rd2NdNck3SHmLHmZSWGrcRo1JegChl8%2FKb4zDElj8uQyed591Gd9mD5V2zpj1Zl2iu55ix16Iu7F83mF5Ehiddkl0uroTO7VKiSGpLjf30tN3gNJ%2FW2ndTW35ZGsfN1FiDn%2BjOPimWsAumRWa3xqnW7IplW6As0OMr2FnauDCuScONL1iItp64Qju5AKFprNJ1E%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR5jQu_r9YA

[NonMember]

51 minutes ago, Neil Clark said:

"Why is the propshaft this way?" asks our man.  "Cos it was that way when I dismantled it."  It's the wrong way round of course, now that I look at the book and is being changed as I write.

I asked the guy at Bailey Morris about this when I had my GT6's new propshaft built. He said it actually doesn't matter at all. They recommend fitting the lighter end to the diff on cars with live axle, but for a Spitfire he said to fit it so that the grease nipple on the sliding spline is easy to get to.

[Neil Clark]

40 minutes ago, NonMember said:

I asked the guy at Bailey Morris about this when I had my GT6's new propshaft built. He said it actually doesn't matter at all. They recommend fitting the lighter end to the diff on cars with live axle, but for a Spitfire he said to fit it so that the grease nipple on the sliding spline is easy to get to.

Now it's done, I'll take the more accessible grease nipple as a win!

[Neil Clark]

3 hours ago, NonMember said:

I asked the guy at Bailey Morris about this when I had my GT6's new propshaft built. He said it actually doesn't matter at all. They recommend fitting the lighter end to the diff on cars with live axle, but for a Spitfire he said to fit it so that the grease nipple on the sliding spline is easy to get to.

Well, when I got to the garage to collect it they hadn't swopped the pro-shaft around because they couldn't, and so it's splined end to the back still.  It turns out that the car is fitted with a  Vitesse gearbox!  I have no idea which Vitesse box is fitted - do they even differ from 1.6 to 2.0 litre Vitesse?  What should I look for?  I do know that the back axle I have is the later swing type.  The speedo does under-read by about 10% (says 20mph but looks like it's 22 or so).  I also have 15" wheels.  This is becoming one of those parlour games like "Whose line is it anyway?"

[Neil Clark]

Sorry typo - 13" wheels

[Gary Flinn]

1 hour ago, Neil Clark said:

Well, when I got to the garage to collect it they hadn't swopped the pro-shaft around because they couldn't, and so it's splined end to the back still.  It turns out that the car is fitted with a  Vitesse gearbox!  I have no idea which Vitesse box is fitted - do they even differ from 1.6 to 2.0 litre Vitesse?  What should I look for?  I do know that the back axle I have is the later swing type.  The speedo does under-read by about 10% (says 20mph but looks like it's 22 or so).  I also have 15" wheels.  This is becoming one of those parlour games like "Whose line is it anyway?"

The Vitesse gearbox as a different Alloy Bell housing to the 4 Cylinder cars, with the starter motor on a different side (I think) and the clutch slave cylinder mounting in a different position too.

I suppose you could change it but no sure if the Spitfire Clutch would work with the Input/First motion shaft of a Vitesse gearbox?

The Early Vitesse 6 Gearboxes are not as strong as the later 2 Litre Models and have smaller prop shaft connecting bolts 5/16" UNF Bolts (1/2" spanner) instead of the 3/8" UNF (9/16" spanner) ones on a 2 Litre Gearbox.

The Vitesse gearboxes do have delightful close gear ratio's, first gear maybe a bit too high for an 1147cc spitfire engine though.

Gary 

PS - that's a Gorgeous Spitfire by the way🙂