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Timing Cover/Sealing block slot head machine screws


yorkshire_spam
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I can't find the slot head machine screws for the timing cover or the sealing block on my Spitfire 1500 engine build.

Does anyone have a set in reasonable second hand condition they'd be prepared to part with?

Or alternatively does anyone know of a supplier that sells the slot head version rather than cross heads?

I think they are:
PT803    5/16" UNF X 3/8" slotted pan head machine screws (5 for the timing cover)
?????     5/16" X 5/8" UNF slotted pan head machine screws (2 for the sealing block)

 

Cheers, Sam

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1 hour ago, yorkshire_spam said:

I think they are:
PT803    5/16" UNF X 3/8" slotted pan head machine screws (5 for the timing cover)
?????     5/16" X 5/8" UNF slotted pan head machine screws (2 for the sealing block)

They are, Sam, and I've had a recent discussion online with some suppliers who had photos of the originals on their site but supplied Philip's versions for my Herald before telling me that is all I'll get these days. I've been advised to buy metric and retap the metal, which may work for some of the timing cover screws but is not ideal.

https://www.fixaball.co.uk/products/m3-machine-screws-slotted-pan-head-a2-stainless-steel?variant=24158657223

I've found similar in UNC:

https://www.a2stainless.co.uk/4-40-UNC-x-5-16-Slot-Pan-Head-Screw_ARHYP.aspx

...plus others listed as a 5/16 6-32 thread, which Pete will have to explain.

I may have located some on a USA site:

https://www.spitbits.com/store/85-PAN-HEAD-SCREW-MK41500-5req-P2601.aspx

There are so many bolt and fastener sites on the Net it would take days to check them all. I'm going to tour a few local hardware shops with one in my pocket and see if they have any old stock. 

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1 hour ago, yorkshire_spam said:

I can't find the slot head machine screws for the timing cover or the sealing block on my Spitfire 1500 engine build.

Does anyone have a set in reasonable second hand condition they'd be prepared to part with?

Or alternatively does anyone know of a supplier that sells the slot head version rather than cross heads?

I think they are:
PT803    5/16" UNF X 3/8" slotted pan head machine screws (5 for the timing cover)
?????     5/16" X 5/8" UNF slotted pan head machine screws (2 for the sealing block)

 

Cheers, Sam

Hello Sam

                   I probably have a set as I did not refit them I used hex heads (they are only there to stop numptys over tightening them as they have short threads.

Roger

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1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

They are, Sam, and I've had a recent discussion online with some suppliers who had photos of the originals on their site but supplied Philip's versions for my Herald before telling me that is all I'll get these days. I've been advised to buy metric and retap the metal, which may work for some of the timing cover screws but is not ideal.

https://www.fixaball.co.uk/products/m3-machine-screws-slotted-pan-head-a2-stainless-steel?variant=24158657223

I've found similar in UNC:

https://www.a2stainless.co.uk/4-40-UNC-x-5-16-Slot-Pan-Head-Screw_ARHYP.aspx

...plus others listed as a 5/16 6-32 thread, which Pete will have to explain.

I may have located some on a USA site:

https://www.spitbits.com/store/85-PAN-HEAD-SCREW-MK41500-5req-P2601.aspx

There are so many bolt and fastener sites on the Net it would take days to check them all. I'm going to tour a few local hardware shops with one in my pocket and see if they have any old stock. 

Thanks Colin, I've been searching and emailing all the usual suspects... maybe shipping them over from the US-of-A is the only realistic way.

52 minutes ago, rogerguzzi said:

Hello Sam

                  Just had a look in my old nut and bolt drawer and can only find 2  3/8" ones and they are slightly different heads! Sorry

Roger

Thanks for looking Roger! I appreciate it.

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surely someone must have a wrecked dismantled engine that can supply the bits. I've seen S/S allen headed timing cover bolts advertised on Triumph ebay websites if originality isn't too critical.

if your really pushed I could rustle up a set of panheads but i'd have to ship from Aus.

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12 hours ago, rogerguzzi said:

Hello Sam

                    How about these people?

They list 5/16" x 1 1/4" which you could shorten

Roger

https://www.arunfasteners.co.uk/stock-range/screws/machine-screws/unf-machine-screws/unf-pan-slotted-machine-screws/

Good spot Roger! Thanks!

12 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

surely someone must have a wrecked dismantled engine that can supply the bits. I've seen S/S allen headed timing cover bolts advertised on Triumph ebay websites if originality isn't too critical.

if your really pushed I could rustle up a set of panheads but i'd have to ship from Aus.

I think the fundamental problem is my fussy-ness Peter - I have in the garage enough short 5/16" UNF hex head set screws to do the job, I can get button or cap head hex machine screws quite easily. I can even get posi-drive pan head screws... what I was struggling to get are the original spec slotted pan-head type. I'm not an originallity freak or anything, but I just wanted to use the original style ones.

 

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and to add all are 5/16unf  

timing cover  pan heads    4lbft after settlement  these only go in the engine plate  , its thin any higher torque will strip them 

any through to the block or have a nut are bolt/setscrews 

seal block cheese heads 12/14 lbft

 setscrews  all 18/20lbft

pete

 

 

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I have Heli-Coiled ALL the tapped holes in the alloy sealing block as daughters current engine were stripped to some degree & leaks too much. I made sure the coil end was below the hole top and after inserting the threads I spent time ensuring  the block was flat. I'm just completing the spare engine rebuild so yet to see if it works ie seals tight, as far as screwing in the pan head timing cover and hex sump bolts that's all worked well all positive and tight.

I've also done a couple of spare seal blocks for future rebuilds, hey if it doesn't work ie seal I'll just buy the club steel one and do it AGAIN.

Peter T

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13 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

just rummaging around and OE 100501  5/16"unf cheese head  now sold by many as  SW605081  (  eg revingtons )

none in the hardware catelogue  but does show PT803 as 5/15unf   slot drive cheese head  

rimmers sw605081 pic  posidrive 

Screw - SW605081

Pete, most of the usual suspects (Paddock, Moss, Rimmers, Canley) seem to be quietly listings the posi-head as "equivalent" to the original spec items.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, yorkshire_spam said:

Pete, most of the usual suspects (Paddock, Moss, Rimmers, Canley) seem to be quietly listings the posi-head as "equivalent" to the original spec items.

That's what I'm finding. It's an easy option for suppliers; there may not be a huge demand for them but at the end of the day they're only screws so no massive outlay and while I'm no anorak I do like to replace timing covers with the proper items. I think my only option is to blast my originals and then just paint over them, which I'm reluctant to do as the shiny silver ones look a lot neater. IMHO of course!

 

DSCF1162.JPG.bd50c9cc3123815aaa2e283117139a47.JPG

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using new nuts bolts hose clips etc  makes a nice finish to any handywork

cant abide using old oily gunged up fixings  some seem to revel in keeping old worn out bolts with knarled heads  and rusted threads , and stuffed washers

as some ritual to originality 

bright and clean  presentation  wins for me every time 

Pete

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18 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

That's what I'm finding. It's an easy option for suppliers; there may not be a huge demand for them but at the end of the day they're only screws so no massive outlay and while I'm no anorak I do like to replace timing covers with the proper items. I think my only option is to blast my originals and then just paint over them, which I'm reluctant to do as the shiny silver ones look a lot neater. IMHO of course!

If I can find enough original ones I plan to clean them and then zinc or nickle plate them.

 

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59 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Do you plate them yourself? I'd be interested in the process, or the costs.

I've been contemplating getting a DIY plating kit for a while for small parts like bracketry etc. So I was going to have a go myself with one of those (after trying it first on some less "unobtainium" rusty bolts)

 

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Arun fastners have quoted about 60p each for the 1.1/4" ones, so I'm probably going to order those and them shorten them to 3/8" and 5/8"

Their minimum order value means I'll have about 20 if anyone else wants any?

(Just going to wait a few days for a couple of other compaines to come back to me before ordering)

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Be careful attempting to plate fasteners yourself , fraught with danger , hydrogen embrittlement is a problem especially on high tensile stuff and controllng thickness  to ensure correct fit. I like using nice shiny new fixings also but not sure how long they will stay shiny though.

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