chrisbladen Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Hi, just wandering if any1 has had this before. Done a complete shell off strip down on a spitfire and had gear box rebuilt, Just reinstalled my engine, box and prop shaft then put body back on to chassis and the engine alignment seems to have shifted to the offside slightly whereby the rubber mounting on the box is quite off centre and the prop is very close to the body. I dont remember it being this far over to the offside previously so just wandering if anyones had this or has any ideas of what may have happened? I have attached some pictures. Thanks in advance, chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkshire_spam Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Are the engine mounts both in the same place? Not one in front of the turret and one behind? Are the mounts themselves the same? A small angle at the front could lead to a large offset at the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 the mount does have minor adjustment as the base holes have a slight slot (might be wrong there ) but the chassis plat can move around a bit more , have you disturbed or tried loosen the chassis plate and the mount and lever the whole assy more central it is possible to shim the front mounts but cant see that affecting rear alignment for the OD rear support to be so far from central can really only be due to poor positioning of the rear mount im sure the mount is symetrical ??? so turning it round doesnt help pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 i wondered that but would have thought the rear mount would have been a sod to align and refit it seems to have dropped in place .............just all at sea Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 I wouldn't worry too much about why won't it go back in the same as it came out just focus on where you are now. Unless you have mucked around with the chassis there can't be anything serious wrong so it's just adjustment. Just fitted my engine/gearbox and been through this! I think there is a horizontal slot in the mounting bracket, support the engine undo the nut and see if you can swing the engine/gearbox round. It's surprising how much it can move (as YS said). I let the engine/gearbox rest on the mounts and gave it a good shake to settle before tightening the nuts. Hope this works. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Two things to check - is the gearbox central to the chassis? Then check how the body sits in relation to the chassis rails. It may be that there's a slight difference in either side of the shell floorpans, so that there's actually more metal on one side that makes it look as though the gearbox is skew-whiff. It may just be the angle of the photo but it looks as though there's more metal on the driver's side than the passenger side, so the box may be central - as is the body - but the two sides are not symmetrical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 When I rebuilt my daughters spare 2500 engine I had to get the front engine plate straightened it had quite a crease in it from an accident I presume. A bent front plate would skew the engine/gearbox to one side Peter T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Sorry not 2500 but Spit 1500 typo Peter T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbladen Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Thank you for the replies. In regards to the mounts they are both in the same position at the turrets. The prop does appear to be off centre to the chassis aswell...but the gear box seems faily central Just to clarify i never removed the diff so that stayed on the chassis so.i can be certain this hasnt moved. In regards to the chassis no major structural work was carried out...just stripped back to metal, small bit of welding and then repainted so it shouldnt have been affected really. The prop shaft connected at the diff end easy enough and doesnt appear to be skewif there so im wandering if that is infact how it was anyway before i removed it? If it is offcentre on the bracket will this cause any issues do u think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 8 hours ago, chrisbladen said: That gearbox mount is shot. The rubber is no longer attached to the lower part. Whether this was caused by a problem with the engine mounts isn't so clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 If your bracket is like this, as I said you will/should be able to loosen and pull the gearbox round to centralise in its mountings. This should solve your problem if as you say you haven't touched the diff. As you say it may well have been off centre when you took it off but best to centralise it now to take any tension off the mounts. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbladen Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 54 minutes ago, Iain T said: If your bracket is like this, as I said you will/should be able to loosen and pull the gearbox round to centralise in its mountings. This should solve your problem if as you say you haven't touched the diff. As you say it may well have been off centre when you took it off but best to centralise it now to take any tension off the mounts. Iain Ok mate thanks il do that then. Am i ok to leave everything else connected...as in the prop shaft at the box and at the diff. Also i just had a look and i take it you mean to loosen the nut that is actually holding the mount to the block and use the elpmgsted hole to adjust?...if so the near side which i would need to take backward, already seems to be adjusted fully forward so im not sure im gona get any more movement in it. Please see attched pic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Yep you got it it's that adjustment slot. I suggest releasing the offside and see if you can push gearbox round to centre on its mounts. Hopefully the offside is also to the front of the slot so it can swing round. Let us know if it works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Sorry, yes I wouldn't bother taking prop off for now. You may need to eat a couple of Weetabix or support the engine with a lift or hoist! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbladen Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 53 minutes ago, Iain T said: Yep you got it it's that adjustment slot. I suggest releasing the offside and see if you can push gearbox round to centre on its mounts. Hopefully the offside is also to the front of the slot so it can swing round. Let us know if it works! Will do. Unfortunately it looks as tho both sides have already been adjusted at some point to the maximum in the direction i would need to pull it. I will still slacken those 2 nuts off though and give it a go. After my weetabix of course 🤣 Just dug a few of my before pictures out and it seems as though it was slightly off centre prior to strip down so maybe that is just how it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 If your engine mounts are as far round as they can go and it's still not enough then I strongly suspect you have a bent engine front plate, as Peter T mentioned. My brother's Mk2 was the same - a result of a serious front-end impact at some point in its earlier life. As a bodge-around, the off-side mount could be moved to the wrong side of the suspension turret to compensate for the bit of engine plate it supports being in the wrong place. And I would seriously think about replacing all three mounts because that gearbox one is shot and the engine one looks on its way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbladen Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 hours ago, NonMember said: If your engine mounts are as far round as they can go and it's still not enough then I strongly suspect you have a bent engine front plate, as Peter T mentioned. My brother's Mk2 was the same - a result of a serious front-end impact at some point in its earlier life. As a bodge-around, the off-side mount could be moved to the wrong side of the suspension turret to compensate for the bit of engine plate it supports being in the wrong place. And I would seriously think about replacing all three mounts because that gearbox one is shot and the engine one looks on its way out. Ok thanks, i was thinking they could do with replacing so now im gonna be playing with them again i think il go ahead and do that. Bit of a daft question but is there a reason why the gearbox and prop couldnt be left slightly off centre? Obviously i would prefer it central but im just wandering what would be the downside to leaving it as is? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 5 hours ago, chrisbladen said: Ok thanks, i was thinking they could do with replacing so now im gonna be playing with them again i think il go ahead and do that. Bit of a daft question but is there a reason why the gearbox and prop couldnt be left slightly off centre? Obviously i would prefer it central but im just wandering what would be the downside to leaving it as is? Cheers If changing engine mounts worth finding out who supplies the best ones (unless they all come from the same factory) as many are short lived. I have kept a stock of old ones in good condition as it is not a new issue. Re off-centre, it won't affect tings very much at all, apart from upsetting most of us as "it's not right" . If the angle was too large, it could upset the prop UJ's, but you are nowhere near that. And of course, clearance under load could result in prop to tunnel contact, which is not good. The alternative to moving the engine mount to the other face of the suspension tower is to make up a spacer for one side and move the mounting forward. Same meat, different gravy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 7 hours ago, chrisbladen said: Bit of a daft question but is there a reason why the gearbox and prop couldnt be left slightly off centre? Obviously i would prefer it central but im just wandering what would be the downside to leaving it as is? As Clive says, it probably wouldn't affect the drive line very much. However, I'd be concerned about your gearbox mounting - you're getting the current misalignment by having a broken one. If you fit a new one then it will try to move things back into line. How are you planning to let it be out of line? What you've got at the moment is only supporting, not mounting, and the box will bounce around and hit things as you drive over bumpy roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 I'm not familiar with how the mounting bracket is attached to the engine, I assume from the posts it's through the front engine plate unlike my vitesse which are to the block. I hate to suggest it but as a bodge can you put a spacer(s) between the plate and bracket to give enough adjustment to centralise the gearbox. Well not so much a bodge as a pragmatic engineering solution! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 i am still surprised the rear mount is actually fitted , there is not a lot of adjustment what you get on the mount and support plate is a bit minimal but its on and well offset . what happens if you disconnect the tail mount does it all line up with the body . if not the front is the problem tackle that then see how the tail mount can be lined up or is this the body alignment rather than the transmission ????? both have been refitted Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: i am still surprised the rear mount is actually fitted , there is not a lot of adjustment what you get on the mount and support plate is a bit minimal Pete, See my comment earlier in the thread and look at the photo. On 17/05/2020 at 09:31, chrisbladen said: The rubber bit of the mount can clearly be seen NOT to be in the right place in the bottom steel part. The only way that can happen is if the rubber has come detached and the mount is completely shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted May 18, 2020 Report Share Posted May 18, 2020 Agreed it shouldn't be left it must be corrected or it will cause mount failures. Perhaps this misalignment is what caused the gearbox mount to fail? Can you see if the engine plate is bent? To give this deviation I would have thought it would be visible. Can you put a straight edge on it? Apart from going back to the chassis or straightening the front plate I would have thought an engine bracket spacer would be the easiest way to fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbladen Posted May 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2020 Have ordered a new gearbox mount and 2 new engine mounts. In regards to the engine plate it is definatly straight, maybe my issue is an earlier repair to the plate or chassis that was not done correctly. I think my best option is to use a spacer as has been suggested. What confuses me is i would have thought with a deviation this great i would have seen some sort of misalignment at the diff end of the prop but it all looked fairly straight when i connected it back up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted May 27, 2020 Report Share Posted May 27, 2020 Chris, Most people think uj's will take care of any driveline angles. The opposite is very much the case, it is imperative the input and output angles in top and side views are parallel ideally to +/- 3 degrees max. Much more and vibration can make the car undriveable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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