1in10 Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Gents I hope all is well with you all, considering. At least I have been given the time to have read as many posts as possible on the various sites, and I am coming up with the same conclusion except for one thing. There is nothing from a second turn of the key. I have a 2.0 vitesse with a Powerlite Hitorque starter and am discounting problems as I progress. The problem is recent and it now has the dead man's click. All earth and live connections to and from the battery as well as the solenoid and the starter have been cleaned. The key turns, the fuel pump pumps and the starter gives the dead man's click. Then nothing. I have to disconnect the earth from the battery, which is brand new 44ah 330a, in order to get life again. The car is dead until disconnection. I have always believed electrics are the devils work and how someone can shed some light. Thanks in advance Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Clean up your battery terminals. One of them is corroded and, while it makes good enough contact for the fuel pump, the starter current blows the fuse formed by tiny conductive particles within the corrosion. Since you say you have to remove and re-fit the earth connection, I'd start with that one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Richard, Also check the earth straps, they can look OK, but be a poor connection. if you have a jump lead put it in parallel with the earth strap. Or you may have a dodgy solenoid, again use a jump lead to replace wiring sections. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Cooper Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Hello Richard, Was it all working recently? with the same starter motor? And when you disconnect the battery is there a sound from the starter? Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1in10 Posted June 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Thanks everyone. I have taken sand paper to ask the connections from the earth on the bulk head to the battery, a second earth to the to the bell housing, through to the solenoid and the starter as well as the positives. Although I will look again tomorrow Dan, along with the jump leads Doug. I have jumped out from another car which has worked. Adrian theatre is no further sound after the dead mans click, just silence, even when I remove the earth lead. Thanks again, I'm hoping it's the solenoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Sandpaper and battery terminals (lead) is good. Sandpaper and terminals is not a good idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 there cheap tools for cleaning terminal lead oxidisation , from posts and clamps but have you bridged the solenoid with an old screwdriver to see it that bursts into life in fact you dont really need the baulkhead solenoid with a geared/ hi torque starter you can wire the white red ign wire direct to the sol on the starter one .and join the old sol battery leads together on one terminal to make a junction pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: in fact you dont really need the baulkhead solenoid with a geared/ hi torque starter you can wire the white red ign wire direct to the sol on the starter one .and join the old sol battery leads together on one terminal to make a junction pete Last time mine failed it was the starter mechanism that had rusted due to water ingress through the drain hole; both solenoids were working and clicking, but the starter gears were not moving. I had to strip it down, clean and regrease everything, but since then it's worked perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 I had a Hi torque on my Vitesse that cranked really slowly,so much so the car rarely fired up before the battery died. I did away with the solenoid,ran new heavy cables everywhere,no change.I bit the bullet and bought another starter and hey presto,it whizzes over and fires up straight away now. Test the starter on a bench if you can to prove it works properly.Repro solenoids are generally crap(imho). Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: have you bridged the solenoid with an old screwdriver to see it that bursts into life Once, sitting on the driver's side wheel in the engine compartment, I dropped a pair of pliers which fell exactly over the solenoid contacts and VAROOM! You couldn't do it if you tried a hundred times. Always disconnect the battery, but if you need it connected, don't leave the car in gear! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1in10 Posted June 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 Gents Thanks for all your comments, it really is appreciated, and apologies fir being a bit of sap, as I have always git someone to do anything electrical as there are darker forces at work when it comes to electrics. What is good for cleaning the terminals. I had go at the screwdriver and solenoid, a few small spark with a click and then nothing, back to removing the negative to get any life so I could try again, and exactly the same with small spark and click negative off. I appreciate the starter has a solenoid and the external solenoid can be taken out of the equation but I would like to rule out the solenoid before turning to other options, and have included a picture so you can see. I have even tried rocking in fourth gear to see if starter is stuck and tried again but nothing. Thanks again Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 if it contiunally goes dead after a short load then the battery terminals or main earths have a problem and the solenoid body needs an earth it will not work hanging off the car there are cheaper versions about sand paper is not good , too much sand debris gets inplanted . https://workshopping.co.uk/auto-electrical/battery-maintenance/battery-shop-sundry-items/sealey-ak418-battery-post-terminal-cleaner-4-way?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzefl_ZeQ6gIVgbHtCh0BvwHpEAQYAiABEgK4RvD_BwE Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 Have you tried a jump lead from battery negative to starter body? (The body! Not the terminal which is positive ) This will bypass all the earths, if it works you've an earth problem if it doesn't, starting to look like the starter motor. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 hour ago, 1in10 said: What is good for cleaning the terminals. Wire brush. And don't forget the insides of the clamps on the cables - they pick up the corrosion off the terminals. You can clean them up with fine sandpaper but you then need to wipe them thoroughly with a soft cloth soaked in turps, to clean the grit off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 Can`t quite see in that photo but,have you got the spacer in front of the starter?,without that it wont line up with the ring gear properly,(ask me how i know). i would join the 2 heavy wires on the solenoid and extend the ignition wire down to the starter terminal.(With the battery disconnected). Either that or put it on the bench and test it with jump leads. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 I still reckon the starter is seized, probably with rust; remove it, dismantle it - only two screws - and you'll see that the internals are not moving no matter how much power they get. The inbuilt solenoid throws the gears forward and at the same time they get current to make them spin; as they're stuck then they're not moving forward to engage, hence the car will move freely but the starter will not turn. I can't find the photos of mine, it featured in The Courier years back, and shows the state the internals get into when water gets in through the drain hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 Hi, I lost my first hi-torque SM due to water ingress. Destroyed the high current copper parts. I need to get round to wrapping the new one in Denso tape. Cleaning of bad electrical connectors is best done with ScotchBrite green. Sandpaper/emery cloth will strip the tin plating of the connector exposing the copper & corrosion will happen quicker than before. Cheers, Iain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 Hi Richard, did you have this problem before fitting the new battery? You could have a duff new one..... I would be trying jump leads from another car just to check. Adrian has asked similar. Tony. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 1 hour ago, SpitFire6 said: Cleaning of bad electrical connectors is best done with ScotchBrite green. Sandpaper/emery cloth will strip the tin plating of the connector exposing the copper & corrosion will happen quicker than before. True, if they're plated. The battery clamps usually aren't (they're brass rather than copper). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, NonMember said: True, if they're plated. The battery clamps usually aren't (they're brass rather than copper). 100% agree. Confusion as I would not call battery connectors terminals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1in10 Posted June 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 Gents Good news I tried Dougs negative jump suggestion and found the problem to be the first earth cable to the bulkhead to be the problem. I really was hoping it wouldn't be the starter. Thanks for all your comments and suggestions, and I have put the sand paper back. I am still of the opinion that electrics is some form of wizardry but your comments have given me a little more confidence to approach it and hope to later follow Pete's suggestion to take the solenoid out when I have more time. Thanks again it really is much appreciated. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted June 20, 2020 Report Share Posted June 20, 2020 Don't forget to coat all those electrical connections with ACF50 grease. I do! Made for Spitfires. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 you see with a bit of help and taking the P theres always good coming from a bit of DIY trial and error there is no black art , but big on our forum you get encouragement help banter thread drift and often taking the mickey but you have persevered and got a cheap successful fix whats next Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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