New member - advice/guidance wanted, based in Yorkshire

[OB96]

Hello,

My name is Oliver. I have recently bought myself a 1965 Vitesse 1600. I'm having a bit of trouble with temperomental power loss and could use some advice.

This is actually my second Vitesse. I had a 1966 1600 as my first car 7 years ago when I was 17, always regretted selling it and I've now rectified that by getting myself another!

Since picking the car up, I have noticed an issue with the power. It's usually alright for the first 20-40 minutes after a cold start, then suddenly loses a whole load of power and struggles to get above 40mph, even worse on hills. If you stop the car, turn the engine off and give it a minute or two, when you get going again it works well for the first 5 minutes or so but then the issue reappears.

Generally speaking, the first things I want to rule out are any problems with fuel supply.

I had thought that, considering the car hadn't been used much in the year before I got it, maybe there was a bit of deposit build up in the fuel tank which was going on to block the carb jets (it's running the twin Solex carbs). It's now had probably 3-4 tanks worth of fuel put through it but the issue is still there.

I've had an in-line fuel filter put in after the fuel pump, checked the fuel pump gauze for deposits, taken off a sample of fuel feeding the carbs to look for any contaminants, checked the jets feeding towards the butterfly valves for timing / function etc. Couldn't find any problems and the issue is still there.

My next steps are going to be replacing the needle valves in the carbs, replacing the pump (or maybe converting to an electrical pump), fully draining the fuel tank and refilling with fresh fuel, possibly buying some second hand Stromberg CD150s and getting them reconditioned and fitting them to the car.

If the issue is still there after all of that, I may move on to considering a possible electronic problem (condensor/capacitator/points etc.).

The only actual problem I have identified is a difference in the cyclinder engine compressions: 1=8.4; 2=7.8; 3=7.1; 4=5.4; 5=6.0; 6=7.4. Not sure what this is due to, maybe head gasket or piston rings?

Apologies for the essay, but I've spent a fair deal of time trying to get to the bottom of this and haven't had any luck so far...

Also, I'm by no means an experienced mechanic, and would be grateful if anyone knows a TSSC member (or failing that, a classic car garage) based up in Yorkshire who knows these cars well and could maybe give me a hand / some advice to sort this car out (the car also needs cosmetic work that I'm planning further down the line).

Any thoughts would be really appreciated

All the best

Oliver 
 

[Sparky_Spit]

A couple of quick things you could check.....  take the fuel filler cap off and run the car with it off or loosely fitted and see if this makes any difference.  If so it will indicate that the fuel tank breather is blocked and is stopping the fuel reaching the pump/carbs.

Also, a common fault which causes similar symptoms is a distributor rotor arm that is breaking down electrically once it gets hot, and then works again once cool.  Try a known good one.

[OB96]

Hi,

Thanks for the advice! I did actually try running with fuel cap off as I'd heard there can sometimes be a problem with vacuum build up, but this didn't seem to sort the issue. 

Will definately try changing the distributor rotor arm, seems well worth a go. I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks

[Pete Lewis]

i would add

check the coil polarity is correct ie the dizzy lead must be on the terminal as the the battery is earthed  

if pos earth the dizzy lead goes on the +    if its neg earth then  its on the -

if wrong it can give you as you describe 

on the fuel side any refitting of hose to metal pipes tends to cut off a small sliver of rubber  this flaots about and blocks the back entry of the float needle

adding a mk1 manifold and strombergs gains you a whopping 12 bhp   well worth considering later on .

it will have a delco dizzy , they dont suffer rotor failures but the cap centre contact may need adjustment so the cap brush meets the rotor

there has been some awful condensers on sale which fail when hot 

pete

[thescrapman]

Those compression figures are a bit up an down.

did you do with all the plugs out?

did you try a wet test as well?

[RogerH]

Hi Oliver,

I take it that your comp figures are in 'Bars'  as mentioned they are al over the place.

Run engine till warm.

Take all plugs out

Open the throttle butterfly wide open

Spin engine 5 complete turns.

Record the pressure.

Repeat the above but add a good squirt of engine oil into each pot immediately before attaching the gauge and spinning the engine.

 

Roger

[Pete Lewis]

as the 1600 has a steel shim head gasket i doubt if this has failed but  a retorque is a good plan and worth a try 

def need plugs  out and throttles open to get good results 

as with all triumph heads the washers deform under the nuts and clamping is lost 

do the easy before you start dreaming of burnt valves or worn rings 

the 1600 is pretty unstressed and doesnt suffer many major problems 

Pete

 

 

[JohnD]

If I may, Oliver, always quote a series of figures, such as your compressions, as an unpunctuated list, saying which is first.  For instance yours becomes, No.1 cylinder first, 8.4   7.8   7.1   5.4   6.0   6.4 i n bar.   If I may say so, that's much clearer, isn't it?   And if you use psi, there is no need for a decimal point: 122  113 103 78 87 93.    Even clearer!      And I'm afraid we are all old school and metric units aren't what we are familiar with! 

You may have some excess blow by and reduced compression, but technique is all in this test, and you should do it again, following the above advice.  I'd add, use a length of pliable wire to fix the throttle open!     And more importantly that test is irrelevant to the symptoms you report, so ignore compression for while.      

LIke Pete, I suspect your ignition.    If his checks don't help, I'd suggest a new coil, as a failing one can show up they heat up in use.

John

[OB96]

Thanks all for the advice.

When I tested compression, the engine was hot and I was only taking out one plug at a time, testing that cylinder, replacing and moving on to the next one. 
I'll retry with the throttle open as suggested but I agree that my priority at this stage is figuring out the power issue, which seems unconnected to the cylinder pressures. 
 

Just trying to find the right rotar arm to order, assuming this is the one https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRA102--SelectedCurrency-1?gclid=CjwKCAiA-f78BRBbEiwATKRRBEwVWZ86Wf6KUtZVM8PcnOIrXBQJUgqxaIMniDNQXK8t45JPBvwkkRoCaOMQAvD_BwE

I'll try and take a look at the rotar contact point etc later this week.

Maybe worth considering changing to electric ignition then?

[Colin Lindsay]

Isn't this post a duplicate of this one? I went off to check old posts, as I had remembered an almost identical fault from a short while ago, and wanted to see how that had ended up. I'm assuming then that neither problem was ever solved?

 

[OB96]

Hi Colin,

Yep that was me as well. The problem wasn't solved. I tried most of the suggestions from the original post with no luck unfortunately.
Will see if I can do a bit more work on the car this coming week 👍

[Colin Lindsay]

No probs; I was experiencing a bit of deja-vu and thought the mind was playing tricks! Let us know what you try or how you get on.

[Pete Lewis]

no  thats a lucas nasty one with a rivet in,   avoid !!!!  it wont fit and destined to short our via the rivet............ not used on a 1600

unless the dizzy has been replaced you should have a delco  these have a sprung contact on the rotor that has to make contact with a short fixed carbon brush inside the cap , if theres a gap the spark has an extra gap to jump ...or not

you should have a delco D2020 and would use a https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRA2110

but on delco  hese dont fail you cant get a red one   

a lucas would need a red one to avoid the nasty rivet 

Pete

 

[Colin Lindsay]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AccuSpark-Red-Rotor-Arm-for-Delco-4-6cyl-Distributors-Triumph-Vauxhall-Bedford/170930011146?hash=item27cc38fc0a:g:ATEAAOSwtnpXpba9

[Roger K]

If it runs OK for a while, then loses power and won't pull, that would indicate to me that either you have an electrical component that is failing when it gets hot, or gradual fuel starvation.  The only electrical component I've had that produced those symptoms was a failing coil, easy enough to change to check.  Make sure you get an appropriate one, either for a ballasted system or not (can't tell you which you have but someone will). 

If it's not had much use, I'd say fuel starvation is more likely.  These days you have to add in to the mix the possibility of a rubber fuel line breaking down due to ethanol reaction, especially if it's had 95RON sitting in it for any time.  98 has a lower ethanol content, which is why I use it in everything, but you might try replacing the rubber hoses and seeing if that helps.  If it's got a mechanical fuel pump, that might be failing gradually, too.

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, Roger K said:

either for a ballasted system or not (can't tell you which you have but someone will). 

All Vitesses were fitted with non-ballast (simple) ignition from the factory. The ballast system was introduced around 1970, at the MkIV Spitfire / Mk3 GT6 facelift, possibly a little earlier on other model ranges, but too late for the Herald and Vitesse.

[Pete Lewis]

thanks for the red one colin but still they dont suffer from the cloes rivet shorting problem of the lucas as the delco rivet is much further outboard from the centre 

i have never come across a failed delco one as yet ( well in many years theres always a first time))  , but there were lots of duff lucas after market junk on sale 

and just being red is not the whole answer Im sure there are just as many fake red coloured ones out there to get your money 

Pete