Roger K Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 I've been experimenting with a TR6 wheel stud, following the fracture of a brand new original-size wheel stud at only 36ftlbs tightening torque, and the discovery that all my original wheel nut studs are bent to various degrees - I've only recently bought the car, and had difficulty refitting the wheel nuts, which had to go on at odd angles due to the bent studs. Discussion on another thread recommended uprating the studs, and to keep things Triumph and imperial I have tried TR6 rears. A few minute's work on the lathe reduced the base to dimensions that will fit neatly in the front and rear hubs, see photos attached. The slightly longer shank doesn't look like it'll be a problem (the photo exaggerates it), but I'd like to know what wheel nuts folk have used. I have a TR6 chrome nut which I can make fit the chrome wheel centre, but it doesn't locate very well in the standard steel wheel. I have spent a fair bit having a set of 5.5s powder coated and want to use these. What has anyone else used for the bigger studs, please? They just engage with the stamped steel conical recess, but not as well as the smaller originals. I guess when tightened to the correct torque they should locate OK, but I'd appreciate advice from someone who's done this. Thanks, Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 i used 12mm ford studs and domed nuts 60deg chamfer they located in the minilites /minator wheels chamfer ok had to shorten the stud to ensure not bottoming , did have an alloy spare other wise if using a steel rim would need open nuts due to the thin nave if you have spigot nuts then again free depth is most important Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 Thanks Pete, I can sort the length OK, it's the conical fit I'm not sure about. I wonder whether to turn the nuts down a bit, or risk opening up the wheel holes... or seeing how it goes - or reverting to the smaller studs, even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 as the cone angle is the same it should match up just as well as the old ones just a slightly larger dia nut 60 deg is the standard cone Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 Unfortunately the diameter of the point where the taper starts is quite a bit more. The original nut taper starts at 12mm, the TR6 one at 15. Those 3mm make a noticeable difference. I could reduce the taper in the lathe, but that means trying to reproduce the taper by eye, possibly weakening the base of the nut a bit, and above all having to do 16 of the things! Nobody used stock steel wheels on bigger studs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 I have. OK, they are ford m12 studs, and I have used OEM ford nuts, usually open type with the steel wheels (std type 5.5, same as you have) The nuts work fine, but I have a tendency to overtighten the nuts after I have seen people lose wheel nuts on a trackday. The cone tips have got a little deformed because of this. But still work fine. The wheels have not been damaged at all apart from paint chipping (I used 2k paint) IIRC the wheels are centralised on the hub, so as long as the nuts hold tight, you will be good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 Thanks Clive. I’ll stick a hub in the wheel to check that they are hub-centred. Wouldn’t work on the old Mustang - the wheels are stud-centred so I have to use a Haweka adapter to get a really good balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 if the studs go through the wheel holes then i dont see the cone being a snag but it is raining Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 Ha ha! Also dark. Yes, they fit through the holes fine, Pete, but bobble about a bit on the conical holes. I'll swap the studs on one and test it out before I do the lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahebron Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 Hi Roger You mention wheel studs being bent. Are you running Triumph wheels at 3 3/4" (95.25mm) pcd. Fiat/Lada rims at 98mm PCD will pull up on the Triumph studs but not that well . Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 dont understand the 7/16" stud is a 1'/16" bigger how can it be more wobbly than the smaller 3/8 ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 It’s not actually wobbly. It sits on top of the tapered hole rather than in it. When you look at the GT6 and TR6 studs side by side they are very different! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 I've just done a trial assembly, and can confirm that the standard Triumph steel wheels are stud-centric, not hub-centric. When the wheel is placed loosely over a hub with no wheel studs fitted, it can move around a few mm. The wheel is actually located by the conical fit of the wheel nuts in the steel wheel, and is therefore stud-centric. I don't think the TR6 wheelnuts I was planning to use would locate the wheel well enough to be safe, due to the mismatch between the nut and the wheel conical hole - the larger nut basically sits on top of the cone without engaging with it. Could have insurance implications, too... This gives me a bit of a problem, because I definitely don't want to change the appearance of the car to the extent of using a different wheel type. I'm prepared to go with the 5.5J in the original Triumph pattern, but don't want to fit alloys or similar. I also wish to retain the chrome wheel centre trim, which requires the use of the shouldered wheel nuts. I think I might have to just replace the standard studs and keep a close eye on things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Roger K said: I think I might have to just replace the standard studs and keep a close eye on things! If it's any consolation, I've done many miles (including at least seven Round Britains) in cars with the original 3/8" wheel studs and never had a problem. In fact, the only time I've ever lost wheel nuts was with the larger 7/16" studs (on a 2500S, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 its gorilla hands and ageism that wrecks the tiny studs if continually exceed the 42lbft the bigger stand a better chance of withstanding abuse and idiot tyre bays Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: its gorilla hands and ageism that wrecks the tiny studs if continually exceed the 42lbft the bigger stand a better chance of withstanding abuse and idiot tyre bays Pete I think that's true (although not sure about ageism - maybe ageing?!). When I get new tyres for any of the classics I take the wheels in loose so I control the removal and refitting. My concern with the small studs was triggered by the explosive and noisy fracture of the new stud on my new rear hubs, which was still turning pretty easily and showed a reading on the digital torque wrench of 36ftlbs. The Techwrench was recently calibrated so I trust it. I suspect a manufacturing fault. Edit - I think you are definitely right, Pete. I've just bought a pair of used front hubs from the guys at Mallory Park that were advertised as FF hubs from their racing school, and despite being on a racing car for some time (don't know how long, though), they are in excellent condition with no damaging or bending to the small studs. I suspect the tyre bay gorillas just wind them up to a standard torque setting. My cars with alloy wheels specify varying figures from 80-100ftlbs, so if they're doing that it's no surprise they fail, new faulty parts excepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 your fracture looked metalurgic not gorilla Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 why not drill tap the original 3/8 unf nuts to 7/16unf problem solved ???? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 I’ll investigate tomorrow, but not sure how much metal would be left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 its only a 1/16" but it would solve your cone worries Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 Just tried one - looks fine and should work. My tap set is pretty good quality so hopefully the nut will take the torque OK. What torque is recommended for the 7/16 stud? I suppose I really should thank you, Pete - but now I've got to turn down 15 more wheel studs, and drill and tap 16 new wheel nuts! Does anyone know if there are any locking wheelnuts that work with the chrome centre trim? The ones Rimmers sell don't, unless you enlarge one hole very slightly and rely on just the other three nuts to retain the chrome trim. Not sure who'd want to nick GT6 wheels these days anyway, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Roger K said: Does anyone know if there are any locking wheelnuts that work with the chrome centre trim? I wonder how well they work if someone gives them some stick?. My locking Waso cap was mullered off. Lock no longer worked, though luckily no damage to filler neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-chrome-wheel-locking-nuts-for-Triumph-and-others/184633767903?hash=item2afd07b7df:g:2E8AAOSwX7dgAzk3 Any thoughts on these being suitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-chrome-wheel-locking-nuts-for-Triumph-and-others/184633767903?hash=item2afd07b7df:g:2E8AAOSwX7dgAzk3 Any thoughts on these being suitable? I don't think they have the shoulder for the plastic washer, but it's hard to tell from what's on the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Roger K said: I don't think they have the shoulder for the plastic washer, but it's hard to tell from what's on the box. Item has just been relisted, pics below: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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