1966 Herald Smith's heater matrix leak

[Lance Smith]

My 1966 Herald Smith's heater matrix has sprung a leak and drained down onto the carpet and floor making a mess.  I took the heater apart, flushed it out expelling lots of brown rusty water, (not green coolant in the rest of the engine).  The heater or demister had not been effective in the car, presumably because it was plugged with rusty debris.

The usual Herald parts suppliers do not list the heater matrix as available.  Other sources like Demisterman.co.uk, and motoradsonline.co.uk list replacement parts.  Have club members had good experiences with these suppliers?  There are ancillary bits required as well for replacement.  What is the gasket between the heater valve and matrix?

[Colin Lindsay]

Easy bit first - the gasket is only an o-ring, still available (and hopefully fit for purpose)

There are a few companies making matrix / matrixes / matracies whatever the plural is, they look good enough - I bought one for the TR7 (although purchased through Robsport) and it was a straight fit. I suppose you can only try one and see how it fits, as none of the suppliers are selling any.

[Chris A]

3 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

 

 matrix / matrixes / matracies whatever the plural is, 

'Them' 🥴

[Pete Lewis]

and dont forget to ask a local radiator repair centre if they can effect a repair , can be very cheap

the pipe  gasket/ grommet/olive thing can be made from a short bit of heater hose maybe bevel the edges a little but this has got a good few out of trouble 

when removing the valve and finding they need to replace the seal 

Pete

[Lance Smith]

thanks, Pete, Chris, and Colin.

I traded msgs with Demisterman.co.uk.  When I showed them my matrix sketch and dimensions, they replied that one of the matrix dimensions on their website is incorrect, and that the center distance of the tubes is a little more narrow than stock. Otherwise it would fit, and "others haven't complained", as we are often told.

I chose to have a local radiator shop repair my old original heater matrix.  They took off the plain end cap, rodded the tubes, flushed well resoldered the end cap, straightened the fins and reformed a distorted tube bead.  I did a little pressure check in the sink with a ball pump.  It seems like the leak is fixed.  

I am still unsure about getting a reliable seal between the valve, plain pipe and bracket.  The existing seal appears to have been made by a triangular cross section rubber "O" ring and a paper dished washer.  Do you suppose an ordinary "O" ring was distorted under the clamping force to form the triangular cross section?  I am thinking that a rather softer durometer will allow the required distortion to for the seal.  McMaster-Carr shows soft silicone high temp "O" rings, and water, steam and ethylene glycol resistant "O" rings.  I need to make a wise choice of dimensions.  Does anyone have a record of their successful choice here?

  thanks.

[johny]

yes the concave shape in both the valve and bracket are sufficient to squeeze the thick O ring now offered as a replacement seal onto the pipe.

Think the paper washers may have been added by a PO to increase the clamping. Only other observation is that the bracket in your photo doesnt look very well centred on the heater pipe at the moment but hopefully that will correct itself as the valve fixing is tightened up...

[Pete Lewis]

https://www.canleyclassics.com/?diagram=triumph-spitfire-mkiii-heater-and-demister-details&ptno=613648

613648 is whats needed  but as ive said earlier   cut a short slice off some heater hose , rough chamfer the outer edges but not really needed 

maybe a smear of sealer and youve made one that works for nothing 

Pete

[Clive]

I reused the manky old seal, but a good gob of silicone both sides. Then did it up, but not tight. Left a day, nipped it up. No leaks. I reckon the same idea with 20 turns of ptfe tape would achieve the same thing. Or indeed a nice fat O ring.

[Lance Smith]

I had misplaced my motivation, but found it again recently. 

A local old fashioned radiator shop repaired my original Smiths Matrix for 100$. 

For O-Ring seal between valve and matrix, Canley offers their part # A147.  Rimmers offers C9928A. 

I bought a few Rimmers C9928A O-Rings. They measure up with calipers this way: 0.82" (20.8mm) OD, 0.47" (11.9mm) ID, 0.175" (4.44mm) Wall.  This is an odd size in America.  I couldn't find this size O-Ring at the suppliers or the specs that I normally refer to. Rimmers C9928A O-Ring does fit the heater matrix and valve, not leaking on fitment. Thanks for the help.

[Pete Lewis]

some just cut an olive shape out of a short bit of heater hose 

it works and may help next time you spring a leak on this rather odd design 

Pete 

 

[Wagger]

10 hours ago, Mathew said:

For the seal i have used a plumbers sealent, liberally applied, clamped up and excess wipped. It will come apart if unbolted easily and seems to have worked for years. Just can't remember the name of it for now.

It was called 'Boss white' way back in the 1960's. Last time I bought some it was 'Hawk White' made by Fernox. Boss White was similar to glazer's putty and may have contained Lead. I still use it in preference to PTFE on metal pipes not used for drinking water.

[PeteH]

29 minutes ago, Wagger said:

It was called 'Boss white' way back in the 1960's. Last time I bought some it was 'Hawk White' made by Fernox. Boss White was similar to glazer's putty and may have contained Lead. I still use it in preference to PTFE on metal pipes not used for drinking water.

The “trick” was to wind a grommet from hemp. Coated with “boss” white they filled a shed load of jointing issues. Even on LP steam. Some factories virtually survived on such simple devices. Especially with Yorkshire born “Gaffers”.  On triple expansion steam engines in the old Trawlers it was often the only thing between a Tow and getting home on your own.
 

Pete

[Wagger]

13 minutes ago, PeteH said:

The “trick” was to wind a grommet from hemp. Coated with “boss” white they filled a shed load of jointing issues. Even on LP steam. Some factories virtually survived on such simple devices. Especially with Yorkshire born “Gaffers”.  On triple expansion steam engines in the old Trawlers it was often the only thing between a Tow and getting home on your own.
 

Pete

Brilliant stuff used like that. Especially on steel water pipes at all temperatures. Stopped the rust too.

[Peter Truman]

White gooey paste stuff with fibers used in plumbing was called STAG wasn't it? us Triumph owners should know that, or is that just the Australian name for it.