1969Mk3Spitfire Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 I had this problem last season. The horn would sound as the wheel turned. Intermittent and random, sometimes when turning left, other times turning right. Pretty sure that it’s not wire chafe. Didn’t definitively solve it but it went away. It has returned, it did it three times yesterday. Any ideas, where should I start looking and for what? Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 Have you a lot of "Slack" in the top bearing, and much movement in the Steering Wheel?. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 the column is too close to the handwheel the whole assy is designed to collapse so a good tug on the wheel should move the inner column up a bit or give the outer column tube a good shove and a wiggle it will move down away from the wheel Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1969Mk3Spitfire Posted August 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 Many thanks to you both. There is very little slack within any parts of the steering. I’ve measured approx 5mm clearance from top of the column to the base of the wheel hub. Slackened the inner and outer column screws but it will not (easily) slide further down. Still scratching my head as to why………. Next job is to check handbrake adjustment per my “curse of the gaiter” post a while back. Nice day here today, the car deserves a bit of TLC and a good clean after behaving itself at Tatton park yesterday (other than random horn blows, that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Taylor Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 Had this on my 2-litre Equipe decades ago. Embarrassing, isn't it? I seem to remember it was something to do with the 'biro-shaped' plunger -officially a horn contact- which was shorting out. The Equipe had a Les Leston wheel on it, but an after-market one (Moto-lita or similar) might do the same thing. You can get them from Rimmers: Brush - Horn Contact - Standard Length - 2.6 in - 142534 (rimmerbros.com) althought there are two different lengths to choose from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 Yeh, Patrick, it connects the horn push to a copper disk. As the steering wheel turns the connector turns around the disk maintaining the connection. My disk is a peculiar shape, it has lugs that stick up vertically around the outer edge of the disk, I can't for the life of me see the purpose of them! However, for some reason they tend to get splayed out and if they touch the outer body of the column they short to ground and sound the horn. This generally happens when you heave on the steering wheel while stationary due to slight movement of the central steering column in its mountings. I bent the lugs back inwards and no more embarrassment. I suspect something similar is happening here, the disk is getting a short to ground. This is the arrangement, 19 is the biro push thing and it rubs on the unnumbered disk with the wire, as I say mine has peculiar upward purposeless lugs. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjit Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 Another cause of this can be the angle of the steering rack/column, especially if you have a solid UJ. It's easy to fit the rack in a position where you end up with the steering column/UJ making contact with the front suspension turret where it passes through. Worth checking/slackening the rack clamps and rotating to get the steering column passing as close as possible through the middle of the hole in the turret if it looks at all tight to one side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 If I remember the brass ring/disc has 3 Or 4 lugs that clip under a plastic late to hold it into position my lugs were loose and in turn touched the aluminium steering column earthing out the horns esp on turning the steering column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 hour ago, dougbgt6 said: I say mine has peculiar upward purposeless lugs Doug me thinks this may be upside down Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 54 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: me thinks this may be upside down Nah, don't you think I tried that?! It doesn't fit and if it did the problem would be the same, the lugs splaying outward. I think it was either a manufacturing thing or a scheme to add a non-conducting bearing (nylon?) to keep the biro connector in place. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said: Nah, don't you think I tried that?! It doesn't fit and if it did the problem would be the same, the lugs splaying outward. I think it was either a manufacturing thing or a scheme to add a non-conducting bearing (nylon?) to keep the biro connector in place. Doug It fits into slots on the centre horn push to stop it rotating. There's a lug on the lower side that fits into the wheel, then the upward lugs grip the centre horn push assembly. This keeps the contact firmly on the end of the pencil, otherwise it would end up rotating off in all directions as you steer the car and the horn would end up very hit and miss. If that's not correct it sounds scientific enough for me... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 theres a simple solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 15 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: It fits into slots on the centre horn push to stop it rotating I am convinced by your science. (Until JohD turns up.) I believe it may have been like that on some models, but not on mine, further proof that the late MK3 was built with leftover bits. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said: theres a simple solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 i could go back to these but sold them at Bonhams for £380 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1969Mk3Spitfire Posted August 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 7 hours ago, dougbgt6 said: Yeh, Patrick, it connects the horn push to a copper disk. As the steering wheel turns the connector turns around the disk maintaining the connection. My disk is a peculiar shape, it has lugs that stick up vertically around the outer edge of the disk, I can't for the life of me see the purpose of them! However, for some reason they tend to get splayed out and if they touch the outer body of the column they short to ground and sound the horn. This generally happens when you heave on the steering wheel while stationary due to slight movement of the central steering column in its mountings. I bent the lugs back inwards and no more embarrassment. I suspect something similar is happening here, the disk is getting a short to ground. This is the arrangement, 19 is the biro push thing and it rubs on the unnumbered disk with the wire, as I say mine has peculiar upward purposeless lugs. Doug Everything seems fine so I'm still at a loss. Item 17 above, the three-finger spring clip, has a circular cut-out to clear the pencil. This wasn't concentric so I've moved it (but I can't see how it could be the root cause of my horn poltergeists. Wasn't able to test drive today as my wife had returned home and blocked the drive by the time I had adjusted the rear brakes. Good weather forecast tomorrow so I'll see if I embarrass myself as I turn corners and report back. Thanks for the constructive help........and the not-so-constructive suggestions, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1969Mk3Spitfire Posted August 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 On 23/08/2021 at 11:28, Peter Truman said: If I remember the brass ring/disc has 3 Or 4 lugs that clip under a plastic late to hold it into position my lugs were loose and in turn touched the aluminium steering column earthing out the horns esp on turning the steering column. This gave me a clue. I've painted, to insulate, these 4 lugs and also the tip of the indicator cancelling feature on the column. When reassembling, I've noticed that the ring/disc is floating. There is nothing holding it in place. It looks as though there may have been 3-4 lugs within the head of the column to hold down the outer circumference of the ring. There's only one remaining and, previously, I have used it as a locator, not as a tang. How should the ring be retained? I'm tempted to hold it in place with Blu Tack. Any better suggestions, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 I think the ring is supposed to clip in or perhaps to have its tabs bent over the plastic backing plate. If the tabs are broken I'd go for an epoxy glue to fix it in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 use a double sided tape foam or some decent adhesive blue tak wont last long the ring is not shown?? on any partslist to even try a part number search Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted August 24, 2021 Report Share Posted August 24, 2021 How does yours compare with this NOS version I found online? Might give you a clue if anything is missing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1969Mk3Spitfire Posted August 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2021 Mine is the same one, Colin, and is in good condition. It’s located and secured within the headstock using the 4 slots around the outer circumference. On my car it looks like three of the four tangs have broken away, hence allowing the disc to move, which I’m now fairly sure was the cause of my problem. I’ve now secured it in place using double sided foam tape as per above helpful suggestion. With a bit of luck, I’ve exorcized the poltergeist and will no long be embarrassed as I turn a corner. Thanks to all for your help, suggestions and guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted August 25, 2021 Report Share Posted August 25, 2021 DS foam is very usefull i have two reel of whats used to stick double glazing glass in the frame 1mm thick sticks like sh1t its a handy rescue product Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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